Predator Hunting Questions

[TheBig1]

Thanks a lot fellas, I truly appreciate it. That's a wealth of information.

Par, I have been in contact with Fratri, he's a wealth of knowledge on the subject. I just didn't want to continue bothering him with trivial, this and that, questions.

Gene, thanks for speaking about, in particular, the Hornady rounds. Personally I'm not very versed on rounds, ballistics, etc... I just happened to be looking at these on Cabela's site just to look at what's out there.

So another question for everyone. Again, right now after taking care of a few bills that I have to get paid, I'm looking at the Axis XP Camo 243. When on Cabela's looking at the different rounds I noticed that there are some very pointy ballistics and there are rounds which look more like ball rounds. Does it matter which one you use? Is one better than the other?

Chad

[L. E. Carroll]

For varmints you don't care about saving the hides on ....I load very fast thin skinned V Max, TNT hollowpoints or Nosler ballistic tips designated on the box or package as "Varmint" rounds.... you should see the "Air Time" you get at 300 yds from a 22-250 on gopfers
Michael Jordan would even be impressed.

If attempting to save hides with a 243 your going to get an entry and exit hole on coyotes at normal shooting ranges. Heavier constructed bullet as used for more penetration on deer makes more sence, as it does not expand as rapidly and is not as explosive upon and after impact..
I do not recomend the use of any type FMJ for hunting regardless of the target, unless you can get the head shot 100% of the time,,,, I personally will not use them.

Gene

[galamb]

If I was wanting to save the pelts with minimal damage I would probably go with the Hornady Superformance GMX rounds (80 grains - in 243). These are a mono bullet (no lead), but expand well enough at 243 velocities to mess up Mr. Coyote's day without taking a softball sized chunk out of the far side when it blows through.

Since I don't care about the pelt - just doing my part to get rid of the yotes that were not part of my ecosystem originally I whack them with Jacketed Hollow Points (223).

There is lines of premium varmint rounds, but no need to spend the $$$ if all you are doing is "popping them" - even the 80 grain Blue Box softpoints from Federal will more than do the job and they are some of the cheapest loaded rounds on the shelf (and just happen to shoot sub 3/4" groups out of my 243 Vanguard II which sure doesn't hurt).

[Pydpiper]

You wont find a better coyote round than the .204 Ruger. Fastest factory load made, only exceeded by the .220 Swift, and a margin of 5 FPS. Fast, flat, no ricochet and quieter than other calibers in it range.
Second choice is the .17 Remington, it just has drift issues in the wind, but it too gets there in a hurry and piles up whatever you hit.
third choice is the .220 Swift, it is what a 22-250 wants to be. I use it when I may have to plow through some small brush, or wind is excessive.
I have hunted coyotes for a living for almost 20 years, 7 days a week, 2-3 times a day.
FoxPro makes a great call, both electronic as well as mouth calls, have a look at the Skyote, Foxpros mouth call, runs all frequencies, all volumes and a non freezing open reed. The electronic calls are getting a bit carried away, seems the new features are more for toy guys than hunting. The range of a FoxPro can't be beat, add to that the Foxfade, and you are all set. I have had tremendous success with a "kitten in distress" call, works all year, all hours. With over 300 calls on my FoxPro I use 3, that being one of them. I prefer hand calls, and most of my FoxPro sounds are ones I made myself, with mouth calls and transferred to MP3.
I made my own decoy, electronic that plugs in to my FoxPro, and runs off the remote, Little cost and effort adds a great distraction for bringing the dogs in those few extra yards. FoxPro helped me with that project, tech guys guided me with some technical stuff that I could not determine by tracing their circuitry.
Wind, time and movement being key, caliber choice can make a difference too. That .204 amazes me every time I pull the trigger. It is without doubt the best caliber out there for what you are doing, I would bet my mortgage on it, and have.
Good luck out there!

[TheBig1]

Carl, I just saw your post. Thanks for the info Brother and the forum names. I'll definitely be checking them out.

Pydpiper, I was looking at the Ruger American 204. Can you tell me more about why you believe that's the best? Also, excuse my ignorance, but would the 204 be good for deer also?

The idea behind a 243 was to have a dual purpose rifle for the kids to use for deer.

Chad

[Bullzeye]

You cannot go wrong with that Ruger American, I have one in .243, it's inexpensive and a tack driver, more accurate than my $800 Ruger. Marlin has inexpensive bolt actions also, I have one in .223 and one in 30/06, again, real tack drivers. Sure these rifles will not last the test of time like more expensive quality rifles, but for the money you cannot go wrong.

I use hand call made by Kerry Carver, he makes excellent calls and will spend the time to explain how to use them if need be. I also use my buddies fox Pro and a Mojo critter, I love the Mojo, I once had an owl swoop down and steal it, was quite a sight lol

The most important thing I can pass on to you other than playing the wind is No Movement, No Movement, No Movement, No Movement.

Have fun and good luck!

P.S a .204 is a great caliber for predators, but check for availability in your area if you do not reload, around here it's a hard caliber to find.

[L. E. Carroll]

In Washington State, where I live and hunt... no caliber below the 243 diameter is legal for deer... that makes a dual purpost rifle only go down to the 243 or higher calibers.

Gene

[TheBig1]

In Washington State, where I live and hunt... no caliber below the 243 diameter is legal for deer... that makes a dual purpost rifle only go down to the 243 or higher calibers.

Gene

Thanks Gene, I didn't even think about that. That's probably also the case here. I wish that we were able to hunt coyotes with AR's. I'd love to have fun with that.

Chad

[artifact]

Your welcome Chad!
These guys posting are giving some really good information to you, AND ME!
There have been coyotes on a ridge behind my house for years. One day I was up on top of it looking for arrowheads and saw 2, one was big and coal black. Next day I went out and bought a mouth call and went up there to try to get it, but saw nothing. I may have scared them when I sounded like a 400lb.rabbit!
I have a buddy that goes out for them on occasion, but has never shot one. One day I need to hook up with him and see if we can find a dumb one, that's if I can ever figure out how to use all the functions on the Shockwave!
Like I said, those forums at least gave me the basics as to what to do and what not to do.

[TheBig1]

Your welcome Chad!
These guys posting are giving some really good information to you, AND ME!
There have been coyotes on a ridge behind my house for years. One day I was up on top of it looking for arrowheads and saw 2, one was big and coal black. Next day I went out and bought a mouth call and went up there to try to get it, but saw nothing. I may have scared them when I sounded like a 400lb.rabbit!
I have a buddy that goes out for them on occasion, but has never shot one. One day I need to hook up with him and see if we can find a dumb one, that's if I can ever figure out how to use all the functions on the Shockwave!
Like I said, those forums at least gave me the basics as to what to do and what not to do.

I'll come up and we'll go out to learn together. I'd like to hear that Shockwave.

Chad

[artifact]

Well; I do know it scares the heck out of my house cat!
I also read on the one forum where some guys put them outside under a bush at Halloween, and when the trick or treaters come they turn them on with the remote and get a good laugh, usually at the parents expense!

[Pydpiper]

Pydpiper, I was looking at the Ruger American 204. Can you tell me more about why you believe that's the best? Also, excuse my ignorance, but would the 204 be good for deer also?

While it would be legal in the place I live, I would certainly not recommend it. Being a varmint round it fragments fast, not allowing the penetration needed to reach the vitals of larger game. Unless they have a bullet that I have yet to see.
204 has a point blank range of about 280 yards, meaning there is no compensation for range out to 300 yards.
It's quieter than other rifles of that velocity.
Zero recoil, none. You watch all the action through the scope.
Inherent accuracy. Hard to find a bullet that doesn't shoot well, every manufacturer knows this and keeps tight tolerances on the ammo. Mine shoots one hole groups at 100 yards with factory ammo.
Like most varmint calibers it fragments fast and hard, reducing chance of ricochet and increasing safety.
Burns less powder than other firearms of that velocity,keeps the barrel cooler.
Handles the wind better than the hot rod 22s, and way better than the 17s.
Have never seen or heard of a 204 that won't shoot MOA with 39 grain Sierra Blitz King bullets, if you can find them.
There are die hard 22-250 guys that refuse to see this, much like me and the Swift, but it outperforms it in every aspect except bullet weight.
If you want dual purpose deer and varmint, it may not be the rifle for you though. Can slip a bullet through a squirrel eyeball at 300 yards pretty easy. Because of that it is the only varmint caliber I will hunt small game with, if I plan to keep it.
When I find factory 39 grain bullets I buy them all provided the lot numbers match. For that reason I have not begun to reload for it, no reason as of yet.

[TheBig1]

Thanks Piper, that's some good information to fall back on. I think for right now I'm going to go with what I have, a 30-30, which I use for deer hunting. As for right now, I'll be hunting the mountains and fields. As WE ALL do, I'll be watching my shooting direction and backstops for safety and not worry too much about a pass through.

Now I'm understanding exactly what a 204 is, it's more comparable to a 22 type round. I mistakenly thought that it was a bigger rifle round. I think that when I do buy something it'll probably be in a 243 due to it's dual purpose capabilities.

If and when I ever get to a point of being able to specialize in guns, then I'll begin to seek out such things as the 204.

Thanks again,
Chad

[MTBighorn]

I guess I am the odd man out because I like the 7mm Remington for my coyote hunting.

I live where you are just as likely to call in a Bear, Wolf, or Mountain Lion and shots can be very far. The big caliber gives me excellent accuracy to 800yrds and the 7mm will buck quite a bit of wind.

I see posts about the wind direction??? Well I understand that having the wind in your face is the "proper" way to hunt..but NOT for predators!.... NO self respecting predator will ever come in up wind. They will almost always circle to get downwind before they will show them selves. This is where it is nice to have the long range capability of the big 7

My dad taught me this when I was just a very little. I called for months and never even got a sighting of the coyote or fox. So he went with me one night.

We walked in and I set up just like I was taught to hunt, (by him) with the wind in my face! He just smiled and walked around the other side of the tree. After just a couple minutes of me calling, his rifle Boomed...scared the heck out of me and he had killed a coyote at 60yards...coming in downwind. He shoots a 243....That was 35 years ago.

I like my mouth calls but... I just got a Primo's Alpha Dawg and have really been doing well with it. I like the Alpha because the remote allows me to place the call, and then walk 75-150yards downwind (usually at an angle) to set up. As the predator comes in he has no idea that when he circles downwind, and hangs up at 200yrds, that he is setting right in my lap

While calling at night with a mouth call, I once had a lion crawl right up beside me and lay down at about 8ft Imagine my surprise when I kicked on the spotlight!!! So it is real nice to be able to distance myself a little ways from the call when calling at night just for safety.

My 10 year old son missed a yote a couple nights ago with his 22lr at 40 yrds. I set the call and walked 80yrds closer to the cover...the yote came in so fast that he nearly ran over us!!! Needless to say my son is HOOKED on the hunt now

[TheBig1]

That's a great story Bighorn. Now that brings up another question. In Montana I'm sure that it's a lot of wide open ranges which is what you're talking about. I hunt in the mountains of PA which are hardwoods.

How would I employ your technique or advice in such a case? Would I simply just watch my back and listen for anything that I MIGHT be able to hear behind me or would I set up with my back to the e-caller and decoy?

Chad