Question on what would you pay for vanes

[strum]

I think Keith has a point here to a degree but i also feel any data is better than no data.
all the tester needs to do is use every thing the same. meaning same shafts,
B heads, inserts and use the same rest.
thats still solid data per person.
100 yards will be a tough one for most but its doable.

[nchunterkw]

Graham
Good stuff! But I was coming more from..... Say 2 guys shoot the same bow and both have the same 10 mph crosswind conditions. But one uses a 500gr arrow and one a 350 gr arrow. If they guy with heavier arrows gets a tighter group than the other guy can you say it's because of the vanes or because his arrow was less effected by the wind? In that case I would say arrow weight would mask any observable control differences due to the crosswind.
But I get what you are saying too. Testing with all variables in play is valuable data. But if the goal is to determine if a particular vane is more accurate then I think you need to setup an experiment that will allow for differences due to just the vane to be observed.
Probably need both experiments. A very controlled one to see what the vane is capable of and then testing of the vane in many different setups to see how that translates to real world performance.

Good stuff!
Keith

[Shotnbeer]

Any edge is a plus. that's why gals and guys get new strings, scopes, arrows, etc.

[galamb]

I get what you are saying Keith, but then you end up with a very narrow set of performance data.

If you test say a 350 grain arrow, with an FOC of a (typical) 14%, launched at 355 fps, under ideal conditions, then the results are "only pertinent" that exact set-up.

Without a number of baseline determinations those result could be 1) misconstrued and 2) totally useless to the guy shooting 400 grains @ 405 fps with 22% FOC.

While I am following this with interest, through my own extensive testing (arrow building) I already know that with my Vix II making "well under" 300 fps (270'ish), shooting above 22% FOC almost 400 grain arrows if I use less than a 3" vane (and have tried at least two dozen designs) I can't even get a group that you could cover with a pie plate at 30 yards - because of that I use 4" vanes and can shoot silver dollars all day.

Now, if I didn't do my own testing and I simply read the results of what say a 380 could do shooting a 360 grain arrow with (typical) 20 grain inserts and tried to apply it to "my bow" it could be disastrous. I might attempt a 40 yard shot at Bambi (because this new vane was getting 1.5" groups @ 100 yards) so it must be great - right?

Now to be fair Boo is suggesting 100 yard shots and that takes a number of bows out of the running. But I wouldn't want to do a dis-service to the novice portion of the community or those that simply "mine information" without understanding the background and trying to apply it to come up with a better/stronger machine.

I guess I'm just saying, if the scope of comparison is "narrow", there should be a "WARNING - only applies under the following conditions".

[SEW]

Don,
I'll be glad to test with my M380 & 405. I routinely shoot to 100 yds+. That's with micro spot welded, closed FOCs (Actual FOCs turned into practice points).

[Boo]

I don't think many bows are out of the running for longer range shooting.
One thing I know is that 50 yard accuracy of less than 1" is easily attained so there is no point in testing to that distance. So I guess maybe we should change the distance to something more realistic that is more attainable with a normal set up. That will bring more realistic results as well as the results from the people that can shoot 100 yards. The results from the, let's say 80 yards, would be good info for some guys shooting moose, elk, mulies, 3D and African game.
Input guys?
I hope that we can all learn from this kind of shooting and the persuing discussion, assuming we come up with enough data.
Pay close attention to what Steve tells us, Paul too. But Paul has got a whole lot on his plate right now.

[flightattendant100]

What type of fletching tool are you going to use for the SK300's? Offset or helical? etc. ( 'cause they wont fit in a Bolt.) just curious

[Carnivorous]

They will fit in my arizona ez fletch 1 degree offset. I have used it up to a 4 inch fletch so far.

[Boo]

What type of fletching tool are you going to use for the SK300's? Offset or helical? etc. ( 'cause they wont fit in a Bolt.) just curious

I am looking to compare apples to apples. So as long as the SKs are being fetched in the same tool, it's all good.

[flightattendant100]

What type of fletching tool are you going to use for the SK300's? Offset or helical? etc. ( 'cause they wont fit in a Bolt.) just curious

I am looking to compare apples to apples. So as long as the SKs are being fetched in the same tool, it's all good.

How much offset or helical can you put on a 3" vane and not drag in the rail? Just curious. Seems the Blazers shoot best with MAJOR helical. I bet you can't get that much on a 3" without it dragging in rail. Not sure, would have to play with it. I know a Bitz won't get as much as a Bolt fletcher. Not sure what other EZ Fletch Fletcher's are available,deg. Offset, helical, etc. just wondering.

[Boo]

To my knowledge, nothing puts as much helical on a shaft as an Arizona EZ Fletch Bolt.
But we are testing apples to apples so as long as we Fletch all fletching using the same tool, we're good.

[Boo]

What type of fletching tool are you going to use for the SK300's? Offset or helical? etc. ( 'cause they wont fit in a Bolt.) just curious

Just checked Paul. Fletched with an EZ Fletch Bolt, the Blazer is maxed out.
So, Blazers and SK 200s should be fletched with the same fletching tool and the SK 300s will be fletched with whatever, other than a straight, no offset.
Comments?

[mr meat]

I am looking to compare apples to apples. Well if the test is comparing apples to apples I will have to pass on this test

[Boo]

I am looking to compare apples to apples. Well if the test is comparing apples to apples I will have to pass on this test

[diesel]

I have used the SK300 and they are a very good vane i feel they are the most durable vane out there . Shoot through a target no problem the vane really hold up.
The only thing I do not like about the vane is it is more of a hassle to fletch. First you have to clean the vane then before you glue it you need to use a primer called Zing on the vane. I took a board and with a band saw I cut a bunch of lines in the board and used them to hold the vanes so I could go down through and clean all the vanes and then spray them with the Zing primer. A 4oz. spray bottle is about $20.00.
I went to the ATA show this year and stopped by their booth and the lady asked me what i thought of them I told her i felt they were the best vane on the market but, and she finish the statement " They are a pain to fletch "
She told me they were going to put a new base on the vave to correct that problem .
The SK300 will not fit in the EZ Bolt jig the vane is to long. I spoke to a friend earlier today and he told me Flex Fletch has not released the vane with the new base yet.