Dr Ashby style + micro 355 = serious deer medicine

[nchunterkw]

Nice setup! I had the same experience one time with a Rage and a nice buck and did the same thing you did. All of Dr Ashby's stuff makes perfect sense to me and I have adopted all of the concepts to my crossbow, but I have not really gone above 500gr with my Micro........but that (16" Zombie, 110gr brass insert, 125gr RamCat, 2" helical Blazers, NuFletch Ignniter) went completely through a bison at 30 yds. I think your setup is a bit of overkill for a whitetail, but it will do the job. You will find that the shorter, stiffer arrows from the Micro hit much harder than the longer ones from the older, bigger bows....at least that has been my experience. I wonder if there is a point of diminishing return with a very heavy arrow like that? You are shedding a lot of speed. But yeah....please report your results from this year! I'd be very anxious to hear your reports.

[blue360cuda]

I was thinking it may be a little overkill myself but debating if it's worth trying to shed some weight or just stick with it. Within 30-35 yds it's dead no matter what. But more speed would be nice. If I went with 75 g brass inserts and the lighter 125g grizzly head and 75g insert adapter that would save me 135 grains. But then I loose FOC Hmmm. I guess if it shoots so accurate the way it is why mess with it. I've only used epoxy on 3 of the inserts so I could temporarily hot melt a 75 g insert in and grab a box of 125 or 150g heads and see what happens. I like experimenting so no problem there. It's just like working up a load reloading for my rifle

[nchunterkw]

Yeah, I do the same sorts of tinkering myself. I've had good luck shooting 150gr Magnus Stinger 2-blade heads. They fly very good out to 40 yds. I took one bison with that head a few years ago. Also with a Montec CS 100gr head. The Montec arrow weighed about 525gr and I shot it from my Vortex. Put the head through the animal each time, but the arrow did not clear. So the next teat I went with the 150gr Magnus with similar results. Both of those were with Easton FMJ carbon over Al shafts. Last year I switched to a very stiff carbon shaft...much stiffer than the FMJ, and got better penetration at a little more distance. And with a 3 blade head...I think I said I used Zombies ion that 500gr arrow.....not true. It was a GT Nitro PRO...14GPI versus 9.1GPI for a Zombie. Both are good shafts though.

[Drew]

Your experiments and outcomes mirror mine. Here is the arrow I used last year to great affect on a nice 7pt. Broadhead was a Centaur Archery Big Game, around 200gr with total arrow weight at 486gr if I recall correctly (possibly heavier).



Centaur Big Game compared to Slick Trick



You might want to look at VPA 2 and 3 blades as well, extremely durable and tough as nails. Two holes in everything I shot in South Africa this summer including Kudu and Zebra.

[blue360cuda]

I love the centaur heads, look awesome and sure bet they put down a nasty trail. There's a guy on our local "Michigan out of doors" tv show who does self film long bow hunts , he uses those heads... With great success too. Personally I just wanted to try single bevel and see what happens. Very curious about this twisting action in soft tissue and splitting bone. I simply went with the straight edge design for ease of hand sharpening. Tried the KLM jig and just didn't like it, better luck screwing them into a handle (my primer pocket cleaning reloading tool) and sharpening on a water stone then stropping. Scary sharp.


Anyways, I ordered some 125 grizzly heads today and going to try a 75g insert, 75 grain adapter and 125 head. That'll shave 135 grains off but it'll knock my FOC down a bit too. I used epoxy on 3 of my 8 arrows for the inserts so I can experiment with them still. Any tips on getting inserts out that I used gorilla glue epoxy on? I figured I may try putting a field tip in and gently heating. Or use a threaded adapter in my sodering iron. Just nervous about heat and the carbon shafts.

If I go that route it'll put my arrows right around 500 grains. I'll give it a try and see how they fly. Maybe 636 is overkill for deer lol.

[gerald strine]

From one Michagander to another nice ammo your flinging,If that will not get a pass through you better run

[Hunt it]

I read it was about 5 grains per FPS. So at 355 fps with 350 grains that puts me at 56 fps slower with 636 grains.

Also I was under the impression it was the single bevel blade that caused twisting in meat not the arrow twisting

It is the helical fletching twist that imparts greater rotation on the shaft, much more so than the bevel. Many miss this fact and put right grind bevel and left helical, this counteracts the whole program. I know reading all Dr. ed's data will take a lot more time than most have but he covers this in there very well someplace . If you go to 2" fletch you can get enough helical to getr done. Your source is correct in that you will have trouble with helical and 3" but his knowledge of single bevel and how it is works is lacking somewhat if that is where you got info. You need good helical to get full benefit of single bevel - what it was designed for. As for the Grizzly it's a great head and a good deal cheaper than the Tuffheads. Tuffheads where not designed for white tails, they will do the job but they where designed for big game/dangerous game.

I have a 700 grn arrow (600grn shaft, 100gr head) I am testing out of my 400 BD and it almost makes the bow silent and flies perfectly. Drop off is horrendous beyond 30 but anything I need an arrow that big for will be 20 and under yards. I'm going to play with a few 425gr Tuffheads on that 600 gr shaft as well as the 300 Xtreem which is the toughest head I've ever tested bar none.

[Hunt it]

This is the 300 Xtreem- stainless 3 blade made in Toronto, Ont.

[blue360cuda]

That 300 looks nasty! Do they come pre dipped in blood? Lol

I'm using right offset with right bevel. So far I'm very happy with the flex fletch sk300s. They're much more durable than the Blazers. I need it too since it keeps burying my arrows down so deep

Tried slowly heating a field point in pliers and was able to pull a 125g brass insert out without any damage that I can tell to the carbon shaft. Going to play some more when the 125 grizzly heads arrive. Hopefully I can get my hands on a chronograph or just bite the bullet and buy one. I guess at the end of the day i would like a little more speed but really loving how well the big nastys fly If it's under 35yds it's down. I doubt anything would be able to jump the string at that distance even if I'm only shooting around 280 or so but I really think it's closer to 290-300 range.


About the twist action I was under the impression is was the unequal forces the single bevel encounters once it actually hits the critter that causes the rotation/L shaped cut.

[acreek]

Those heads look awesome. They have a very primitive appeal to them. They make modern day mechanicals look like they belong to a pea shooter rather than on an arrow or bolt.

Based on Excalibur's Arrow Performance chart (found under Support bar on left of screen), I would estimate your rig is performing like a 400 grain combo traveling around 275-280 fps.

[Hi5]

The last time I saw something that big attached to a shaft, it was in the hands of a tree planter, and the shaft had a "D" handle instead of fletching.

[nchunterkw]

Those heads look awesome. They have a very primitive appeal to them. They make modern day mechanicals look like they belong to a pea shooter rather than on an arrow or bolt.

Based on Excalibur's Arrow Performance chart (found under Support bar on left of screen), I would estimate your rig is performing like a 400 grain combo traveling around 275-280 fps.

acreek
the "rule of thumb" formulas for speed are:

Exo-Series bows (longer limbs)You lose 1 FPS for every 5 grains of wt. increase

Matrix/Micro Series bows
You lose 1 FPS for every 3 grains of wt. increase.

Wt Increase means an increase in the wt of the arrow OR the string

So assuming the same string, and a Micro 355 doing 355fps with a 350 gr. arrow...............for Blue's 636gr arrow:

636-350 = 286gr / 3gr per fps = 95.33fps loss
355 - 95.33 = 259.67fps approximate speed.

Just thought you'd like to know where the speed guestimates were coming from

[Moonwolf]

Fred Bear and Howard Hill was using heavy two blade broad heads and arrows setups from 1930s they killed everything that walked the earth .

Nice set up -heavy arrows rule keep them sharp

[gerald strine]

Just a thought I think you will get the same accuracy if you replaced the brass incert with a standard aluminum , your FOC should still be fine and you should still have all the weight you need for great penetration. And have a great balance of speed, penetration and accuracy.

[blue360cuda]

I'm going to give it a shot with the 125g grizzly heads and the 75g titanium tuff head adapters. Going to an archery shop this weekend and use their chrono. Will shoot and compare my 636g original set up and the 125 heads + 75g adapter with both the 125g and 75g inserts. That'll give me a good way to gauge accuracy and speed with weights from 636 to 551 to 501. Curious what I'll actually get. If I can still get great accuracy out of the 501g set up (125 head, 75 insert and 75 adapter) then I'll go with that. If the 3g per 1 fps rule applies then I'll pick up about 45 fps.

The only thing is I like that the 185 grizzly heads are 0.070 thick blades while the 125 heads are only 0.040 thick. Doubt it would be a big issue with deer though

Isn't this stuff fun?