High performance string vs stock

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longbow joe
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High performance string vs stock

Post by longbow joe »

I have tried basically all of the forum string makers strings and liked all of them better than stock.o issues.
Mainly because of the better serving and low stretch.
I could care less about any speed gain.
I have shot a 180 fps longbow for years even my vixen feels like a bazooka. After seeing my 250 fps vixen blow thru deer lm not much worried how fast my bow is.my fastest bow is a matrix 355.
I also shoot a heavy bolt (435gr.) And have catwhiskers on.
Basically my question is how much extra stress does a high performance string put on one of our bows?
I kinda assumed that me using a bolt much heavier than the minimum excalibur suggested and the catwhiskers basically kinda nullified any extra stress from a more harsh material.
Any input on this assumption of mine ?
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vixenmaster
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Re: High performance string vs stock

Post by vixenmaster »

It does not produce stress, some materials use vectran that takes the shock absorber quality out n will be abit harsh on short stout limbs. The limb energy has the stress n it causes the string to react to it. At some pt the string will break in the mddle n you will have 2 halves. I like to change out my strings after 1200 shots
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vixenmaster
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Re: High performance string vs stock

Post by vixenmaster »

OK maybe i can add abit more info here before i head to my Climber. Old models had carved tip limbs, the dacron material was jus the ticket. Then Excal upgraded their limb tips n Factory/optional flemish went to D97 material less stretch n more speed because of the lighter over all weight of string. Since then materials have improved in strength n quality. Force 10/8190/8125/Mercury from BCY have been a top of the line material fer string builders. They do not create stress nor harshness to the crossbow n its limbs. The very fact of usin a very short stout fiberglas limb has been the stress creator. Longer limbs are much less stressed
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amythntr
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Re: High performance string vs stock

Post by amythntr »

.... thanks for your explanation Mike...I totally agree that the shorter limbs are the issue... there are just too many reports of splintered limbs and multiple breaks which appear to be the norm...and are the concern of many of the micro series CB owners.

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janesy
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Re: High performance string vs stock

Post by janesy »

Post edited, not on topic sorry
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xcaliber
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Re: High performance string vs stock

Post by xcaliber »

You can visit BCY, and Brownell string materials website and even call them, they will tell you which materials are crossbow approved and recommended strand count. I prefer Brownell personally with preference of Rhino or Fury. I think heavier arrows also make a big difference. I have had zero limb issues following their guidelines with strand count and 400 grain arrows or heavier.
Cat whiskers add weight, and reduce vibration, yes they help. On the Micro models, I'm told by a very respectable string maker that there is not much gained from them, but a whole lot lost in terms of performance. I think the Excalibur, Danny Miller, and dbKiller string stops do a whole lot as well.
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nchunterkw
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Re: High performance string vs stock

Post by nchunterkw »

My two cents on this is that yes a "high performance" string does add stress to the limbs. In particular to the limb tips. The older Dacron strings not only stretched but were very elastic. Stretch being defined as a permanent lengthening and elasticity being defined as the materials ability to lengthen and then return to the same length. So when an arrow was shot and the string started to stop then limbs, the elasticity of the string would absorb some of the energy so the limb did not have to. BUT in the same way, when the bow was fired, the string would stretch a bit before it started moving so some of the energy of the limbs did not get to the arrow...so they went slower. By using D97 or something else that doesn't stretch or have as much elasticity, yo increase arrow speed but at the effect of putting some more stress on the limb tips as the string stops them.....hence the re-designed limb tips to the Mag Tips.

This is not to be confused with the tensile strength of a given material. That rating is pretty much what qualifies a material as "crossbow" or not. For example D97 has a tensile strength, per strand of something around 100lbs. F10 is about 10% stronger and I'm not sure about the others. And a higher tensile strength doesn't necessarily mean a faster string. It just means it takes more force to break it. I personally see zero difference on my Micro between a D97 string and an F10 string. I can swap them with no change in POI.

SO to answer the original question.....how much more stress.....I can confidently say ....I dont know....but it is more and I trust that the Excal engineers do know and have designed the Mag Tips adequately enough to deal with the added stresses. SO I don't worry about it.

Now if you use a string with vectran in it....that's a different animal because it basically has zero stretch and elasticity and 100% vectran strings did damage bows when it first came out. Hence the blended only materials available today (BCY-X, Excel, etc.) . So I steer clear of it
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retrieverman
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Re: High performance string vs stock

Post by retrieverman »

I couldn’t believe there was much difference in strings until I tried a Force 10, and the difference to the stock strings on my Micro and M380 was very noticeable.
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nchunterkw
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Re: High performance string vs stock

Post by nchunterkw »

retrieverman wrote:
Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:20 pm
I couldn’t believe there was much difference in strings until I tried a Force 10, and the difference to the stock strings on my Micro and M380 was very noticeable.
Was that a switch from the stock EL string to a Flemish F10? IMO Flemish strings settle things down a lot and absorb more shock.
Keith
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Boo
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Re: High performance string vs stock

Post by Boo »

Force 10 is SK78. While the newer SK90 and SK99 have a better strength, they all retain the same creep and elastic properties as SK78. When our strings require so much material so that the diameter is suitable, the number of strands make for such a strong string that there are no advantages of SK90 or 99. There is a significant improvement of creep and elasticity over SK75 (Dynaflight 75) but no improvement in terms of strength.
There really is no string material and I kind of wonder if there is any material of any kind that has absolute zero creep or elasticity 452X, 450 and Xcel have 1/3rd Vectran to give it some elasticity. Strangely, the aforementioned combination string materials are slightly slower.
In the near future new bows will be sporting Force 10. When BCY starts to produce a larger diameter X-99 material, I'll try that. The issue with a thinner material is that with more strands, you end up with more that are of different length which in turn causes a longer settling time. My Force strings more of less stop creeping in less than 20 shots or so and the 40 strand strings take up to 50 shots. All because of the number of strands, not the material used.
My most favorite string material is Astroflight. But alas, Brownell is done like dinner. But I bought enough for me! :wave:
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xcaliber
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Re: High performance string vs stock

Post by xcaliber »

I’m stocked up too with my favorite materials. I will try some of the new offerings as well. I like their customer support a lot, never in a rush, and willing to go into detail with you about your application. I’m a fan!
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xcaliber
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Re: High performance string vs stock

Post by xcaliber »

Don, I stand corrected. I tried to log on to their website, and no luck. I just received some material bought through Lancaster Archery for Rhino, twas a small order unfortunately. I will get some now that I know I like for future usage.
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wabi
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Re: High performance string vs stock

Post by wabi »

I can only comment on my personal experience.
When the Phoenix was first introduced I bought mine (not sure of the year).
Set it up with a fastflight string (no idea which specific string material, but one of the high performance strings).
After a few months I found a couple small splinters on one limb. Sent the limbs to Danny Miller and he sent me a new set.

Used the new limbs for a while and a pretty good sized splinter popped up on one. Contacted Danny and since deer season was still in he advised me to cut the splinter off, smooth it up with sandpaper and keep hunting. When season ended I sent the limbs to him and got new ones.
I decided to go back to dacron at that point.

I'm still using dacron and still shooting the Phoenix with that third set of limbs. Not one problem in many years.

Was it bad limbs, too stressful of a string, or just plain bad luck? I have no idea, but I'm going to keep shooting dacron and keep blowing arrows through deer with an old crossbow that still works fine.
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BrotherRon
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Re: High performance string vs stock

Post by BrotherRon »

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