Moon nocks

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Boo
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Moon nocks

Post by Boo »

I've always used flat nocks for my Excaliburs and steered others away from them because of indexing problems. I have used capture nocks and fully endorse their use. Because I am doing some work with Killer Instinct and their Swat, one of the guys involved (SEW) has discovered that moon nocks or capture nocks for that matter will give you a 5 ft/sec speed advantage as well as reduced serving wear at the deck. I talked to Excalibur's engineer and he is very interested. He texted an image that you guys might want to see! I'm pretty sure my NDA with Bowtech won't get me into trouble if I post it but I'll wait until I get the go ahead. It's all pretty cool!
Bottom line is that flat nocks are a pretty good assurance for those who may mis-index.
I was talking to the owner at Burt Coyote and they have a new moon nock design which I really like.
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Re: Moon nocks

Post by nchunterkw »

Hmmmmm......do you guys think it's because the string is not shifting on the back of the arrow as much, or is it reduced drag on the rail. I'd say the latter.

My "cure" for indexing is to use 3 different colored fletches and also mark the arrow with a silver sharpie (you can see the mark better at dusk/dawn). No need for 2 hen and 1 cock feather on a crossbow....and 3 the same makes it easier to make a mistake.
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janesy
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Re: Moon nocks

Post by janesy »

Boo wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:50 am
I've always used flat nocks for my Excaliburs and steered others away from them because of indexing problems. I have used capture nocks and fully endorse their use. Because I am doing some work with Killer Instinct and their Swat, one of the guys involved (SEW) has discovered that moon nocks or capture nocks for that matter will give you a 5 ft/sec speed advantage as well as reduced serving wear at the deck. I talked to Excalibur's engineer and he is very interested. He texted an image that you guys might want to see! I'm pretty sure my NDA with Bowtech won't get me into trouble if I post it but I'll wait until I get the go ahead. It's all pretty cool!
Bottom line is that flat nocks are a pretty good assurance for those who may mis-index.
I was talking to the owner at Burt Coyote and they have a new moon nock design which I really like.
I can understand capture, but why do you think the moon knocks would produce any further speed advantage over flat?

I still do believe that given the rate of dryfires, and or undisclosed mishaps, flat knock is in the best interest. But if you already index, why not go capture.
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Boo
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Re: Moon nocks

Post by Boo »

janesy wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:04 pm
Boo wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:50 am
I've always used flat nocks for my Excaliburs and steered others away from them because of indexing problems. I have used capture nocks and fully endorse their use. Because I am doing some work with Killer Instinct and their Swat, one of the guys involved (SEW) has discovered that moon nocks or capture nocks for that matter will give you a 5 ft/sec speed advantage as well as reduced serving wear at the deck. I talked to Excalibur's engineer and he is very interested. He texted an image that you guys might want to see! I'm pretty sure my NDA with Bowtech won't get me into trouble if I post it but I'll wait until I get the go ahead. It's all pretty cool!
Bottom line is that flat nocks are a pretty good assurance for those who may mis-index.
I was talking to the owner at Burt Coyote and they have a new moon nock design which I really like.
I can understand capture, but why do you think the moon knocks would produce any further speed advantage over flat?

I still do believe that given the rate of dryfires, and or undisclosed mishaps, flat knock is in the best interest. But if you already index, why not go capture.
The advantage is that the string will stay centered in the nock. That keeps the string off the deck to reduce serving wear and the polymer nock is far more slippery, hence the speed advantage.
The picture below is a high speed capture on an Excalibur. This whole thing is a surprise for me. Again, the flat nock is pretty simple but the capture nock would be the best for preventing semi dry-fires which is extremely common, much more common than virtually anyone understands.
Image
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Re: Moon nocks

Post by Boo »

Here's the new Lumenok with the Parker and the Alfa nock. The shank of the Lumenok has been improved as well. The upper is the Tenpoint Alfa nock and the bottom is the Parker.

Edit to add. The second picture shows the new shank design. The Third is the old shank design.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Last edited by Boo on Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Moon nocks

Post by Hi5 »

At the moment of firing a flat nock would produce more string deformation. The string tends to flatten against the nock and is squeezed both upwards and downwards. Upwards doesn't make much difference, but downwards drags harder on the deck. A nock reduces string deformation and consequently reduces drag.

(That's a guess from someone who pretends to know what he's talking about, and instead of pretending, ought to be finishing his lunch and getting back to work.) :thumbup: :thumbup:
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Re: Moon nocks

Post by IronNoggin »

Sure... NOW you post this after I just bought ten more FLAT Luminoks from you! Crafty Ol' Bugger! :lol:

Interesting information alright. But I'll have to wear out around 3 dozen of the flat ones before I jump onboard methinks...

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Re: Moon nocks

Post by DuckHunt »

That's very interesting. I've always wondered if the hard edges of flat plastic nocks caused serving wear at the heavier draw weights. The moon nock lends itself to a much more forgiving curved edge eliminating the issue. Of course it creates the orientation issue in the process, so everything comes with a price. Maybe the price is worth it if you can solve partial dry fires and add a few fps in the process.

x2 Nog. I've got to lose a lot of arrows before I can do any testing.
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Boo
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Re: Moon nocks

Post by Boo »

IronNoggin wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:30 pm
Sure... NOW you post this after I just bought ten more FLAT Luminoks from you! Crafty Ol' Bugger! :lol:

Interesting information alright. But I'll have to wear out around 3 dozen of the flat ones before I jump onboard methinks...

Cheers,
Nog
For most people, flat nocks are best. I have no data on accuracy yet, but I expect that if there is an advantag at all, it will go to the flat nock. Still, in the heat of the moment, flats are the best. I think for the less advanced shooter, capture nocks are best. I get cheap now and then and capture nocks are not financially the best option. To go to them and have lighted nocks mean enough extra expense that I’m not going there for all my Excaliburs. The Firenock system is a pain to build and pretty expensive when you add their circuit board that controls the light.
Matt, Lumenok will not be making matching non-lighted nocks so to go to moon nocks for anyone who shoots a lot might be spending a good amount of money through the year.
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Re: Moon nocks

Post by Boo »

DuckHunt wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:37 pm
That's very interesting. I've always wondered if the hard edges of flat plastic nocks caused serving wear at the heavier draw weights. The moon nock lends itself to a much more forgiving curved edge eliminating the issue. Of course it creates the orientation issue in the process, so everything comes with a price. Maybe the price is worth it if you can solve partial dry fires and add a few fps in the process.

x2 Nog. I've got to lose a lot of arrows before I can do any testing.
The reduction of wear is where the serving drags on the deck. Excalibur uses a good amount of deck pressure and some bows aren’t kind the the serving in that respect.
I’ve never seen serving wear from plastic flat nocks but have seen it with metal nocks.
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Re: Moon nocks

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Re: Moon nocks

Post by wheelsquad »

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Re: Moon nocks

Post by flinthead »

Very interesting Mr. Boo... :thumbup:
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Re: Moon nocks

Post by Boo »

FYI, the high speed picture is from Excalibur Crossbows.
The redesign on the Lumenok makes the string enter the nock less abruptly than the traditional nock shape.
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Re: Moon nocks

Post by Boo »

janesy wrote:
Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:04 pm
I still do believe that given the rate of dryfires, and or undisclosed mishaps, flat knock is in the best interest. But if you already index, why not go capture.
Sorry Chris, I did not address your 2nd question directly. I believe that capture nocks are the best way to go especially for less experienced people. I absolutely agree, there are a whole lot of semi dryfires. Most don't know and many cannot admit. I caught myself almost doing it last summer. The nocks were burred by the string and did not want to go in past the latch. When I first pushed the arrow back, I did so gently and it stopped. It kinda felt funny so I pulled back and pushed harder like I normally do and I felt a bump before hitting the string. I am 100% sure the bow would have shot but I don't want to find out. I guess I should take a pencil sharpener to all my plastic nocks and remove any burrs and leave a chamfer.
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