Who is this Seller

[Jim C]

I tend to believe bj over some who are saying otherwise but lets suppose what woodsman says is true. (I don't believe it is and I won't explain why )

why should a small high quality pro shop such as mine continue to sell a bow that some internet guy can sell for 40 bucks less than what I pay for it? why should I promote the bow in question when I could make more selling the inferior wheel bows?. You can't buy Hoyt, Mathews, Martin Pro Line etc from internet or mail order dealers -at least not legitimately. You can't go to Dick's or Bass Pro and buy a Protec Hoyt, a Mach 11 or a Martin Scepter III (or the current version of their top spot bow).

now before anyone gets upset, I again state that I don't think this guy on ebay is getting his stuff from excalibur

anyone want to take a crack at answering this? the issue isn't the guy who wants to buy the bow at the lowest possible cost like gonbargainshopping.

the issue is the manufacturer, its wholesaler and its retailer relationships

[Red Label]

Jim C,

I agree that you may have some legitimate beefs if someone can undercut you by so much. Until you find out how he's doing it or where his bows come from, you can't answer the distribution question.

The proper method for resolving your beef is not an internet forum IMHO. It's a direct call to the manufacturer/distributor.

Just my $0.02

Mike

[wabi]

I think Jim C is merely questioning how this guy can sell for less than dealer's cost, not intending to suggest we (the buying public) owe our loyalty to dealers only.
After following the discussion, I'd like to know, too.
Jim,
If I may ask a question of you as a dealer, and I'll understand if you decline an answer, is there anything in your agreement with Excalibur setting a minimum retail price? Or could you pay $300. for a bow and sell it for $200.? I know, you won't be in business long, but is it legal?
Ebay IS an auction, and perhaps the seller is just taking a chance that most items will bring a profit.
I recently offered a used bow on a few forums (this one included) for $125. When it didn't move I put it on eBay for $89. starting price, and it brought $150.! Still a bargain for the buyer, but less of a loss to me, so eBay isn't all bad

[GonHuntin]

Jim

Thanks for the "gonbargainshopping" slam, I really appreciate it! Do I smell a hint of sour grapes here??? Excuse me if I call BS on your "I am not in the archery business to make money " statement......if you aren't in it to make a profit, then exactly why are you in the business? Why would you go through the work if you aren't in it to make money?

Fact of the matter is, most of us don't care about whether "the issue is the manufacturer, its wholesaler and its retailer relationships".......we are consumers and we are looking for the best equipment at the least cost.......period! We aren't concerned with your bottom line and whether you think it's fair that someone else is selling cheaper than you can buy.......it's not our problem.......don't like it.......take it up with Bill in private......don't come here and whine about it and then slam people who don't agree with you!

Lawyer, eh?........how typical!

[Jim C]

I think Jim C is merely questioning how this guy can sell for less than dealer's cost, not intending to suggest we (the buying public) owe our loyalty to dealers only.
After following the discussion, I'd like to know, too.
Jim,
If I may ask a question of you as a dealer, and I'll understand if you decline an answer, is there anything in your agreement with Excalibur setting a minimum retail price? Or could you pay $300. for a bow and sell it for $200.? I know, you won't be in business long, but is it legal?
Ebay IS an auction, and perhaps the seller is just taking a chance that most items will bring a profit.
I recently offered a used bow on a few forums (this one included) for $125. When it didn't move I put it on eBay for $89. starting price, and it brought $150.! Still a bargain for the buyer, but less of a loss to me, so eBay isn't all bad

I don't have a contract with excalibur. I push their products because I believe in them and the people who own the company. Here in the states, when I told Bill I was starting a shop he directed me to Dan Miller whose service has been impecable. I cannot speak for other retailers in the USA but I do know that I talked the shop (now out of business due to owners retirement) I used to be a staff shooter for to carry excaliburs and they got them from their main archery wholesaler-papes as I recall

[The Butcher]

I think more of us realize more than Jim C gives us credit for. I understood what he was saying after the initial post. But what I have seen, is a little upsetting. This scooby guy has a better than 99% seller rating. You don't stay in business long with a 10% seller rating on ebay. Everyone is bashing this guy and not knowing all the facts. His business may suffer, it may not. When I started into archery 30+ years ago, I did not like to pay someone 10 extra bucks to attach fletching to my shafts, so I bought a jig, and did it myself. I did not like going to a "pro" shop, and buying a string that I could make for 1/10th the cost. I learned to do it myself. I learned to tune my bows, just because it was a pain to get in the car and drive 35 miles to the nearest shop. I do believe in supporting the little guy, and do so when possible. But...... How many guys to to the super car dealer who deals in volume, because he can save you $5.000 on a $50,000 car. Same as saving $50 on a $500 bow. Everyone, and I mean everyone wants to save money. Why do folks go to the local Wal-mart? Because of savings. How many mom and pop shops get run out of bussiness because of them. How about old time gas stations? You know, the ones where they do your windows and check oil. No one cares, they buy there gas at BP, or Citgo, or some other superstation, to save that $1.50 a tank full. I have no problem with anyone who wants to buy at a pro shop, or wal-mart, or where ever. Everyones budget is different. I guess what I'm saying is, we have no idea where this guy gets his bows, if he made a deal with excalibur, if he stole them off a semi, or what. I guess I just believe until anyone knows the facts, we should bite our tongues. He may be on the up and up. If his deals are shady, and the facts are presented, by all means, bash him. If he makes bad deals with people here, bash him. If he is getting the bows cheaper because he is a wholesaler, let the manufacturer take care of it to help the retailer, like Matthews or Hoyt would. But sometimes name callin is as bad as sticks and stones.

[Jim C]

Jim

Thanks for the "gonbargainshopping" slam, I really appreciate it! Do I smell a hint of sour grapes here??? Excuse me if I call BS on your "I am not in the archery business to make money " statement......if you aren't in it to make a profit, then exactly why are you in the business? Why would you go through the work if you aren't in it to make money?

Fact of the matter is, most of us don't care about whether "the issue is the manufacturer, its wholesaler and its retailer relationships".......we are consumers and we are looking for the best equipment at the least cost.......period! We aren't concerned with your bottom line and whether you think it's fair that someone else is selling cheaper than you can buy.......it's not our problem.......don't like it.......take it up with Bill in private......don't come here and whine about it and then slam people who don't agree with you!

Lawyer, eh?........how typical!

my standing in archery is well known to those who count and I suspect you are no where near that level so I will dismiss you as a nobody

everyone who is involved in recurve archery of any note knows me and knows what I have done for this sport and financial motivations have nothing to do with it

you can ask Vic Wunderle, Janet Dykman, Ann Hoyt, Darrell Pace, Bill Pimm, Aya LaBrie, Jason Mckittrick, and everyone else associated with the last Olympic trials my interest in the sport and none of them will tell you it has anything to do with making money in this area

[Jim C]

Butcher-I never bashed the g uy in question-I merely asked how he could sell bows for less than what legitimate retailers can buy them for and questioned if such tactics were good for the brand.

as to his ratings I note that one poster who I don't know stated that he had problems with the guy and the guy tried to buy off his negative comments

I am sure that those who buy a bow for less than wholesale from the guy are happy. I never denied that.

I merely suggested that this sort of stuff doesn't help the brand in the long run

[GonHuntin]

my standing in archery is well known to those who count and I suspect you are no where near that level so I will dismiss you as a nobody

Jim.....the lawyer in you is leaking out! So, I'm a nobody to you.....I'd guess that 99% of us on the forum would fit your definition of a nobody.....yet you come whining to us asking for sympathy because an auction lister is undercutting your price......somebody that comes whining to a bunch of "nobodies" for sympathy???.....where, exactly, does that leave you?

everyone who is involved in recurve archery of any note knows me and knows what I have done for this sport and financial motivations have nothing to do with it

you can ask Vic Wunderle, Janet Dykman, Ann Hoyt, Darrell Pace, Bill Pimm, Aya LaBrie, Jason Mckittrick, and everyone else associated with the last Olympic trials my interest in the sport and none of them will tell you it has anything to do with making money in this area

Don't know you or any of those people you listed......and I don't care! In case you hadn't noticed, this isn't a "recurve archery" or "olympic archery" forum! Who you know or what you have done for archery has nothing to do with your whining about the price of a crossbow on Ebay! If your name dropping was meant to impress me......well, you missed your target!

If you really aren't in it to make money.......then why do you care what scooby sells his bows for???? If money is of no concern to you.......why aren't you selling your bows at cost???? Better yet, why bother selling them at all?

I still say you are full of BS......but, then again.......most lawyers are!

[Jim C]

[quote="Jim C]
my standing in archery is well known to those who count and I suspect you are no where near that level so I will dismiss you as a nobody

Jim.....the lawyer in you is leaking out! So, I'm a nobody to you.....I'd guess that 99% of us on the forum would fit your definition of a nobody.....yet you come whining to us asking for sympathy because an auction lister is undercutting your price......somebody that comes whining to a bunch of "nobodies" for sympathy???.....where, exactly, does that leave you?

[quote="Jim C]everyone who is involved in recurve archery of any note knows me and knows what I have done for this sport and financial motivations have nothing to do with it

you can ask Vic Wunderle, Janet Dykman, Ann Hoyt, Darrell Pace, Bill Pimm, Aya LaBrie, Jason Mckittrick, and everyone else associated with the last Olympic trials my interest in the sport and none of them will tell you it has anything to do with making money in this area[/quote]

Don't know you or any of those people you listed......and I don't care! In case you hadn't noticed, this isn't a "recurve archery" or "olympic archery" forum! Who you know or what you have done for archery has nothing to do with your whining about the price of a crossbow on Ebay! If your name dropping was menat to impress me......well, you missed your target!

If you really aren't in it to make money.......then why do you care what scooby sells his bows for???? If money is of no concern to you.......why aren't you selling your bows at cost???? Better yet, why bother selling them at all?

I still say you are full of BS......but, then again.......most lawyers are! [/quote]

and you are a moron-my point was to raise a concern to a company I care about because IMHO which is based on facts you could never understand-is that this hurts excalibur

I have rent to pay and charge enough not to lose too much money. that I have meant something in the lives of the kids we coach, that we put on what many consider the best Junior nationals ever and the best olympic trials is my payment

as to you not knowing those names-I sort of expected that-its one of the things I note the xbow haters used to always say about crossbow archers-they aren't really archers and unfortunately, people like you give them that ammo

I also note you don't have anything in your profile filled out-another reason to dismiss you as a nobody

[ed]

YAAAAY! DO YOU HAVE PUDDING? Reply: Yes we do. YAAAY!! I LOVE PUDDING!! YAAAAY!!

[GaryL]

Jim C was a very interesting thread untill now, but as usual a smart a$$ or two come's along and make it something it is not. As norm and to be expected everyone can not see the thread/post as intended. even though it was pointed out that no one was bashing the guy...well was one who had a bad experience that posted. The question was simple...(how can he sell below wholesale)

[Jim C]

right you are Gary-of course Ohio Xbow archers are noted for the wisdom that comes with 30 years of experience

[Guest]

I standby my post on this thread concerning the need to support my local pro shop.
With very few exceptions, no one on this forum can understand the outstanding contribution to the sport of archery George Pelkey and his family have made to Northern Vermont. The JOAD program not withstanding.

Ebay? Moot. Knock yourselves out.

I too like to make the best of my money. But, I'll continue to support the people making a difference in the future of archery in these parts.

[GaryL]

I standby my post on this thread concerning the need to support my local pro shop.
With very few exceptions, no one on this forum can understand the outstanding contribution to the sport of archery George Pelkey and his family have made to Northern Vermont. The JOAD program not withstanding.

Ebay? Moot. Knock yourselves out.

I too like to make the best of my money. But, I'll continue to support the people making a difference in the future of archery in these parts.

With you 100% Carl...However I have made all but a couple of xbow purchase's from bj as no shops close enough that sells Excalibur xbows in my area. As to e-bay I can't say anything to anyone whom buys from there as it was their choice. My recurves, long bows, and compounds have all been purchased from my local archery shop (Walkers Bow Bend) Best to ya Carl have a good night..