Straight or helical

[PRB]

Has anyone actually compared any accuracy difference between the straight fletched and the 4 degree helical ? Is there that much difference when it comes down to getting a deer at...lets say 20 to 30 yards ? Thanks

[brayhaven]

Not in my crossbow, but I had a (good looking) girl at the archery store convince me to try straight fletching on my compound. They weren't nearly as good, with frequent flyers (hmm, good term; maybe I should copyright it ). Stands to reason that a spinning projectile would be more stable in flight than one that's not. Last time I ever listen to a good looking girl... well for a while anyway...
Greg

[GaryL]

Has anyone actually compared any accuracy difference between the straight fletched and the 4 degree helical ? Is there that much difference when it comes down to getting a deer at...lets say 20 to 30 yards ? Thanks

No At 20 - 30 yards their is no difference you can see. I have compared...a straight flecth is 1- 2 deg off set and for that distance the difference is not noticeable..At 40 past yes you can get tighter groups.

[PRB]

Thanks guys. Thats what I was wanting to hear brayhaven is that the same girl with headlights set on high beams

[Uncle Smiley]

I always wondered the same thing, but after visiting the Jo
Jan site I found that their recomendation is as follown:
Straight fletching works better with target points than it does with broadheads.
Helical fletching will get the arrow spinning the fastest and will stabilize the broadhead the best. This does make it harder to get clearance using a shoot-through rest but is highly recommended for broadheads.
Mind you, these recomendations are for compound bows but what works on one should hold true for all. We are talking about arrow flight not the launch system.
Slowmotion shows the arrow starts it's spin about 10 to 15 yards away from the launch point.

[PRB]

Thanks Uncle Smiley. Thats what I've also heard from some other people. Unless you have a fairly high degree of helical (4 degree or higher) then there is no benefit to having the helical when it comes to shooting at distances of no further than around 20 to maybe 30 yards, "with a crossbow", because the arrows fletching doesnt actually give the arrow itself full spinning flight stability until around 25 yards...so I've heard . I've also heard that at 30+ yards the arrow is starting to spin pretty good at that point (w/high degree helical) and has given bad results to the strucural strenght of some broadheads because it's actually trying to twist the broadhead through the point of impact, thus breaking and/or bending a blade or two (especially hitting rib, or shoulder bone first,) before making its complete exit. Man I really wish I knew what I was talking about. I guess I'm trying to convince myself that the straight flething will work just fine for shooting deer at no farther than 30 yards...well maybe 35 And like Gary L said there is no noticeable difference anyway. If someone can argue with these points that I've heard then please do so. I enjoy talking about things I dont understand Thanks, Randy

[brayhaven]

"If someone can argue with these points that I've heard then please do so. I enjoy talking about things I dont understand Thanks, Randy"

Not to argue with them, Randy, but one observation I had with my straight fletch experiment. This was @ 250 fps bow. At 25 yds, with straight fletch & tuned bow, some arrows enetered the target at angles showing instability (IMO) during flight, when I shot the helicals they went in straight and much better groups. Don't ask what the deg. of angle (fletch) was. I was using a whisker biscuit & thought the straight fletch might interfere less (that's what "Madonna told me anyway ). I don't think there's any advantage to straight fletching, but there are more learned folks here than I...
Greg

[GaryL]

A true 4 deg helical fletch with vanes will rub the rail and can only slow down your fps but with feathers not as bad.

All reading I have done on xbows state to use a straight fletched vane/feather for that reason. Most xbow bolts from the manufacture comes with a 1 too 2 deg. off set..This is not a helical fletch.

From 10 to 30 yards I myself can group a straight fletched bolt so tight my bolts are either missing vanes/feathers or are robinhooded, past 35 I just get a nice tight grouping.

[PRB]

Thanks again brayhaven and Gary L. I believe I'm going to try some straight fletching to start with and compare the results to the 4 degree helical from shooting at different yardages. Ok Ok brayhaven I cant take it any more. You have said "good looking girl" and "Madonna". We are going to demand to either have some pictures or a short video of this girl. Aw heck, I'll settle for her joining the forum

[brayhaven]

A true 4 deg helical fletch with vanes will rub the rail and can only slow down your fps but with feathers not as bad.

.

I'm curious as to how much it (helical) slows them down. Anyone chronoed them side by side (same arrows but some straight & some helical) ? The crossbow might be affected differently than my compound was. I did watch a test on the whisker biscuit & it cut the speed by @ 5fps. I'm using gold tip Laser-2's in my X-bow. What is the offset of these? They don't seem to rub on the rails at all.

[MiB]

Brayhaven,
From shooting a compound vertical bow the price of shooting a tight helical flectching is about 10% of you speed when compared with straight fletch. This is however at distance, your intial spped will be the same. However if you are shooting well both straight and helical will group well. However helical will improve your grouping if the conditions or your personal proformance isn't perfect. For twenty to thirty yards there would be little difference in group sizes, and the straight fletch being easier to produce, is probably all you need for hunting. For 3D shooting however I would try either helical or something like the new NAP fletch. Which has a "hook" moulded into it's shape, to see which improved the accuracy the most for the least drop in down range velocity.
Regards MiB

[gad]

If you read all you will understand why I am posting this message on this thread (right or helical fletching).

I know I am a newbie on crossbows world (just get my exomax on july 2004). But I think I can contribute on this talk. By living in Brazil, it becomes totally impossible to import a good target to practice (weight/volume/$$$$$$$$$$ of freight). But a few days ago I have made a target that can stop the furious of the max! (fiberglass, high density foam, ruber, etc...)

I bought from ebay a pack of crimsom talons, and have not tried them before. But now, I am impressed. It gives ALL the acuracy that is anounced. The stabilized arrow from the front really works. I have two configuration of arrows. Laser II's and Beman thunderbolts. The beman fletching is right 2 degree, it rotates the arrow on the same direction that the talons. The laser II's fletching rotates the arrow on the another way, but the talons works on both of them.

I don't know the results of the crimson talon on a game, but the acuracy is very good.

You should try.

[bj]

A true 4 deg helical fletch with vanes will rub the rail and can only slow down your fps but with feathers not as bad.

All reading I have done on xbows state to use a straight fletched vane/feather for that reason. Most xbow bolts from the manufacture comes with a 1 too 2 deg. off set..This is not a helical fletch.

From 10 to 30 yards I myself can group a straight fletched bolt so tight my bolts are either missing vanes/feathers or are robinhooded, past 35 I just get a nice tight grouping.

Hmmmmm......excalibur run their vanes up to 4 degrees offset...i'm not sure how you "helical at 4 degrees"...it usually has to be more than that...we run our vanes and feathers up to 7 degrees offset...i've chronied these through both parker and excalibur bows and right out of the gate, there's little or no difference in fps...
- so in answer to the initial question, will it make a difference on a deer at 20-30 yards ???...maybe at 30, not at 15 -20 as you can almost shoot a bolt with 1-2 or no vanes on it and not a whole lot of difference at these modest distances...(not that i'm recommending less than 3 vanes, as i know that will be the next question ??? )- will it make a difference at plus 30 out to fifty - most definitely the more the bolt is spinning the more accurate it is going to be, in relationship to all of the neat things that happen between 0-50 yards...will it be more accurate at 50 yards - most definitely, proven fact with "whatever points" are sitting at the end of the bolt - will it be slower when it gets there - of course it will...if it's using up stored energy spinning faster, as all things remain relative, this spining effect translates to lost fps downrange....so, if i can shoot a tight group at 30 yards and more, more offset will shoot inside this group, with all things remaining equal....

just my .02 cents....
\

Wayne...

[PRB]

Thanks for all the great inputs. It sounds like I'm hearing that I should be ok with the straight fletch with my simple goals...for my two sons (future) and I to shoot deer with my Vixen at probably no more than 30 yards Its nice to hear peoples experiences with proven results. It keeps dummys like me in line. Well for a little while

[Hoss]

and I believe BJ is givin you gems there...hes helped me in the past with just that plan and simple factoids...straight will get the job done but a little 4 degree offset (is what i use) will make you more accurate at further distances..if needed..