Convince me about crossbows

Crossbow Hunting

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Fur & Feathers
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Post by Fur & Feathers » Sun May 22, 2005 8:53 am

That's exactly how I feel here in NY. Discriminated against by NYB. It's a personal thing for me.
Get out & Enjoy.

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Big John
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Convince me

Post by Big John » Sun May 22, 2005 9:10 am

Morning all:

I came on to give some more on the subject, however after reading the posts again, I"ll go with Sand man, and Digger , this guy Nybow is here to stir the pot!

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wildwindom
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Re: Convince me

Post by wildwindom » Sun May 22, 2005 9:20 am

John wrote:Morning all:

I came on to give some more on the subject, however after reading the posts again, I"ll go with Sand man, and Digger , this guy Nybow is here to stir the pot!

Go back Please, we are Bow Hunters on Crossbow Forum
DITTO if nybow dont have enough info by now and still disagrees with crossBOWS then (not to be rude ) but go back to your forum and leave us in peace befor this gets out of hand cause we like it just the way it is. I will not post anthing else about this subject.
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Shakky
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Post by Shakky » Sun May 22, 2005 9:51 am

Nybow, lets look at this a different way. Convince me that compounds should be used in a season intended for long bows/ recurves. I really don't think that compounds should be permitted in bow season. They are easier to shoot as one has a sight and doesn't have to learn to shoot on instinct. They are easier to draw and hold because of the let off. People will not practice with a compound because with the let off and the sights they don't need to. The average compound is faster then a long bow. This gives the hunter an unfair advantage over the deer I'm sure with the extra speed of the compound you could take deer out to 100 yards easy. I'll tell you straight out if you allow compounds during bow season it will destroy the deer population. :wink:
I could go on but I'm sure you get the point. Now you know what some crossbow hunters have had to put up with. Do compounds have some advantages over long bows, YES. Do crossbows have some advantages over compounds, YES. Should both be included in a bow season, YES.

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Post by Woodsman » Sun May 22, 2005 10:07 am

Sounds like the old debate back in the sixties about scoped rifles and iron sighted rifles. :lol: Even if a crossbow is a little "easier" to shoot or master, isn't this a good thing? I want to kill my game, not mame it!

I shoot both the crossbow and a compound. In my neck of the woods it's the nervousness of the animal, position of the animal (broadside or angling away), the number of trees and branches, and distance estimation which greatly affects trajectory, which influence my shot distance (i.e. closer is better).

A crossbow is a freaken primitive weapon compared even to a tradtional muzzleloader, let alone a rifle. Go out and shoot both crossbow and compound as I do and you will see there is little difference between the two.
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Post by Moxie » Sun May 22, 2005 12:12 pm

nybow,,,,, A question. If you in the near future had a physical injury from which, drawing a vertical bow would not longer be possible, would you give up hunting or pick up the horizontal bow, the crossbow? If yes, why?
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DOXNUT
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Post by DOXNUT » Sun May 22, 2005 1:07 pm

The only difference between x-bow vs Vert. is you don't need to hold the string physically, on a x-bow. They both have the same energy generator, same projectile, same limited range, and both have mechanicals releases. Thanks to our wonderful technologies, both worlds share many options and functions...............So whats so different? Beside the physical appearance. The crossbow is more like a brother to the vert, then a black-powder rifles is to a shotgun.

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Post by buckeye » Sun May 22, 2005 2:18 pm

nybow,
The reason for a seperate bow season was to give archers a fair chance
at killing a big game animal. We all know that once the guns start going off
and the woods are besieged with hunters it is almost impossible to get close enough (30 yards or less) to kill a big game animal. So if both type of bows, both vertical and horizontal have the same effective range,whats the real difference. When Fred Bear petioned all states to have a seperate season I do not think he had in mind compound bows, single and double cam bows, bows shooting 280-300fps, aluminum and carbon arrows, fiber optic sights, stabilizers, peep sights, mechanical realeases, mechanical broadheads, and last but not least 85% let-off bows. But when a compound user kills a trophy he or she believes that they belong in the record book right next to Fred Bear and Howard Hill. What a bunch of phonies and blow hards. The only true archers left are the tradional archers which have my utmost respect. Maybe they are the only ones who should have a seperate season?
BUCKEYE

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Post by GonHuntin » Sun May 22, 2005 3:06 pm

nybow

First, I want to say thank you for coming to the forum and discussing this in a respectful manner.......as you well know, this debate is often very emotional and can quickly descend into mud slinging and name calling.....you have chosen the high road and I appreciate that.

Second, let me say up front........a crossbow *IS* easier to use proficiently than any other type of bow that I have ever used.......

Now, a bit of history so maybe you can understand where I am coming from.....I started shooting bows before I started school......that is not an exaggeration.....it is the truth. I started with an old fiberglass recurve and wood arrows. I continued to shoot various recurve bows until my senior year in high school, when I bought one of the first compounds I ever saw.......About 1982, I became close friends with a gentleman who owned the local archery shop.......I was in his shop almost daily and I got to shoot all the "latest and greatest bows" as they hit the market.......at that time, my wife and I also became members of the largest archery club in NE Oklahoma........after just a couple of years, I was elected Rangemaster of the club and, later, President. My preference for hunting equipment eventually reverted back to the recurve bow and instinctive shooting.......I still have two very nice BlackWidow bows that I can no longer shoot but still don't want to give up............I don't tell you that to brag, just so you will understand my background........

When I served as club president, all the major "archery" organizations were outspoken against crossbows........I am now ashamed to admit that I was right with them........funny thing about that.......none of the people that I knew in those organizations (including me!) had ever shot a crossbow!!! We were all speaking out against a perceived evil with out ever having actually seen it firsthand!

About 10 years ago, I started having shoulder problems that forced me to give up shooting a bow......my only alternative was to try a crossbow or give up bow season all together........I did a lot of research and finally, reluctantly, bought an Excalibur Exocet.........the first season was a REAL eye opener, although I had one of the best crossbows produced, I didn't take a deer with it........I learned a lot!......I learned it is just as easy to miss with a crossbow as with a compound or recurve! I learned that deer react much differently to the increased noise of a crossbow verses a recurve! I learned that carrying and holding a crossbow in a stand is a real problem.........I learned that holding a crossbow "offhand" while waiting for a deer to get in the right position can be absolute torture on my left arm and shoulder.......and I learned that a spooky doe at 15 yards can get under an arrow and walk away untouched....even when that arrow is fired from a crossbow!!

The BIGGEST thing I learned was that a crossbow is NOT the "sure thing" that many people want you to believe!!

Last season, I passed up approximately 25-30 shots at deer under 25 yards........more than half of those shots were under 15 yards.......at least half of the deer I passed were bucks that needed to grow.....At the very least, I could have easily killed 10 of those deer with a recurve.......I ended up taking one doe.

In all that time I spent in the woods, I didn't bother any other hunter.......I didn't keep anyone from getting a deer........I didn't affect the deer population to any significant degree........and I had a great time......

I think I'm like most other crossbow hunters........I just want the opportunity to enjoy the woods and hunt! What's wrong with that?

How about the guy who works 2 jobs to support his family and doesn't have the time to practice enough to be proficient with a compound..... should he miss the chance to enjoy the woods???? Would it be better for him to squeeze in a few hunts with a compound he can't shoot well and maybe gut shoot a few deer with the "right" equipment???? You KNOW that is the situation more times than any anti crossbow archer wants to admit!!!
So, if there is a "bow" that has no advantage in range, speed or accuracy, but is "easier" to become proficient with........don't you think it would be better for that guy to use the "easier" bow rather than wound or cripple deer????

One last thing, and probably most important.......when the anti hunters bring on the fight to stop bowhunting.......would you rather have me and all other crossbow hunters standing beside you.....or watching from the sidelines where your rules have put us??? You decide...........

nybow

Post by nybow » Sun May 22, 2005 4:11 pm

Gonhuntin -

Thank you for your insightful post. I appreciate your perspective.

To others - I'm not sure why you are being hostile. I feel I have been respectful and non-judgemental. I have gained perspective in the 2 days I've been here, but I will leave you alone if you desire.

For what its worth, the frank discusion and personal testimony of physically challenged hunters has motivated me to be more supportive of crossbows for disabled ang aging bowhunters in NY.

My initial (gut reaction) opposition to crossbows has softened. I'm not sure I will support them universally as fully as I will for disabled hunters, but I will not actively oppose them (which means you have won one over).

A word of advice to the less than hospitable ... take the chip off your shoulder. You have a valid case when presented reasonably. Calling me an elitist, hounding me about compound technology (I shoot a recurve, too), and running me out on a rail when I am reaching out is bad form.

For your sake, I hope you choose the more calm and rational among you as your spokesmen. They have already realized that you cannot convert those you offend.

Good luck to you all. Thank you for your time and information.

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Post by Woody Williams » Sun May 22, 2005 4:52 pm

nybow,

Sorry, but you don't know the history of "bowhunters" coming on here and asking about crossbows.

Some, like you did, start out pleasant enough and then after two or three posts the proverbial crap starts. Believe me, we have had our share of trolling bowhunters coming on here only to look for a fight.

So forgive the few that looked at you with a questioning eye.

I will say that you were quite pleasant to talk to about crossbows.

Your greatest faux pas was when you posted – “you must admit that the fact that they are beneficial for the physically challenged means that crossbows are somehow less challenging then conventional archery gear.” Folks that are physically challenged don’t really like to hear that.

From what I understand the greatest threat to your early NY archery season is the muzzleloaders. They are wanting a whole week. Now, tell me, what would YOU rather have in your deer woods in the early archery season – things that go BOOM or another archery tool that goes THUMP?

You see, IF crossbows were legal in NY that would increase the number fo bowhunters and make bowhunters a more powerful voice to be reckoned with. Food for thought…

Make a trip to Ohio and shoot a crossbow.. you may like it..
Woody Williams

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Leo in Ga
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Post by Leo in Ga » Sun May 22, 2005 4:58 pm

To others - I'm not sure why you are being hostile. I feel I have been respectful and non-judge mental. I have gained perspective in the 2 days I've been here, but I will leave you alone if you desire.
I am excepting you at face value for now maybe others are not??

nybow, one reason is that we have been having this same discusion for years and all but a few start off with an apparent interest to discuss and then BOOM.... maybe some members are "gun shy" :shock:

As I stated in my earlier post (You ask WHY, and I am assuming that you seriously want to know by the flavor of your post so far)


I am not condoning or criticizing any post so far in this thread, or attempting to make an excuse for them, except for mine of course :lol:

In closing there are a few members on here that have been banned more than once from various "bowsites" for trying to have a decent discussion as you are here, I personally do not recall us doing that to any of the crossbow haters that have shown up here, but I may have missed one along the line. :wink:

Seems like we have had a few from NY over the years .... :wink:

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Post by Woody Williams » Sun May 22, 2005 5:07 pm

Leo in Ga wrote: Seems like we have had a few from NY over the years .... :wink:
The infamous LONGHAIR!!

How could one ever forget him..
Woody Williams

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Post by Digger » Sun May 22, 2005 5:15 pm

Woody Williams wrote:The infamous LONGHAIR!!

How could one ever forget him..
I'm still trying, he could curl the cream in my coffee.

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Fur & Feathers
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Post by Fur & Feathers » Sun May 22, 2005 5:28 pm

nybow, Since you are registered come back often. I really enjoy this forum & the people. There is a wealth of knowledge here as you just found out. I have learned a great deal about hunting & the outdoors in general since I became registered. Keep coming back. It would be nice to have another NYer here.
I think that was the best debate I have seen on this subject on any forum. A couple of heated statements but not bad. You have to realize we have had some trolls here to stir things up before. Same topic but they were just plain rude & causing trouble. You were bound to be greeted with some skepticism. You seemed genuinely curious to me. It sounds like you got all the info you needed to make your decision. Thanks for keeping a open mind.
Get out & Enjoy.

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