Any Black Bear Hunters Here?
Moderator: Excalibur Marketing Dude
Any Black Bear Hunters Here?
What have you found to be the best set-up for complete penetration of black bear and which broadheads have found that work best since they have heavier bone structure in thier ribs than deer. Does one leave a better blood trail than another? Any other advise? Anyone know what bolt set-ups are used for those that hunt the real dangerous game like grizzly?
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Contrary to lots of common talk, black bear are not hard to kill, if hit solidly in the vitals with bullet or broadhead. That is the key to successful kills in bowhunting, for sure ... an accurate shot with a sharp broadhead from a bow capable of producing adequate penetration.
Heavy bows are not necessary (they're nice, if you can handle them) ... a 150 pound crossbow will do fine. Super-sharp broadheads are absolutely necessary. It is my educated and experienced opinion that cut-on-contact heads up the odds of good penetration, because of the heavy hair, thick hide, and subcutaneous fat on bears ... particularly big ones. Big, stout two-blade heads that can be file-sharpened and honed are a wise choice. Muzzy-types will also serve, especially with really heavy bows.
Accurate shooting is a must. If you're shooting a crossbow, by all means benchrest it before hunting, find out exactly what it's doing, and, if you can, utilize a solid rest when you take your shot.
Be precise.
My advice is to seek to double-lung your bear. Pass-throughs are not needed ... don't hurt a thing, and help with trailing, but my point is that if you solidly double-lung a bear, you won't be trailing it far ... however big and ugly it may be. Same thing is true for a good heart stab ... but if you gut-shoot a bear, hit it in the leg, shoulder, forward chest or somewhere worse, you've got trouble. Once wounded and scared, they're hard to slow down, tough to track, and dangerous.
If you can stick a bruin in both lungs, or lacking that, in the heart, you've got it made. Keep your eyes on it as long as you can and listen hard, because they can be tough to track due to fat and hide slipping over the wounds. You'll hear the crash, perhaps a moan ... and all within twenty seconds or so, most likely.
I have never seen a well-hit bear go nearly so far as some deer with similar wounds, and that's a fact I believe many experienced bear hunters will back up.
One qualifier ... a scared and angry bear can last quite a bit longer, such as one treed or bayed by hounds, and is not necessarily inclined to run when hit. Be careful in such situations. It's best to do that during gun season, with someone to back you up.
Good luck. I love bears, and see some most every day ... a juvenile male and a sow with three cubs yesterday. Lease hunters have killed one 583 lb., one 501 lb., and one 464 lb. bear on this farm in the past three years. I prefer to kill smaller ones personally, as they're better eating and much easier to handle.
Grizz
Heavy bows are not necessary (they're nice, if you can handle them) ... a 150 pound crossbow will do fine. Super-sharp broadheads are absolutely necessary. It is my educated and experienced opinion that cut-on-contact heads up the odds of good penetration, because of the heavy hair, thick hide, and subcutaneous fat on bears ... particularly big ones. Big, stout two-blade heads that can be file-sharpened and honed are a wise choice. Muzzy-types will also serve, especially with really heavy bows.
Accurate shooting is a must. If you're shooting a crossbow, by all means benchrest it before hunting, find out exactly what it's doing, and, if you can, utilize a solid rest when you take your shot.
Be precise.
My advice is to seek to double-lung your bear. Pass-throughs are not needed ... don't hurt a thing, and help with trailing, but my point is that if you solidly double-lung a bear, you won't be trailing it far ... however big and ugly it may be. Same thing is true for a good heart stab ... but if you gut-shoot a bear, hit it in the leg, shoulder, forward chest or somewhere worse, you've got trouble. Once wounded and scared, they're hard to slow down, tough to track, and dangerous.
If you can stick a bruin in both lungs, or lacking that, in the heart, you've got it made. Keep your eyes on it as long as you can and listen hard, because they can be tough to track due to fat and hide slipping over the wounds. You'll hear the crash, perhaps a moan ... and all within twenty seconds or so, most likely.
I have never seen a well-hit bear go nearly so far as some deer with similar wounds, and that's a fact I believe many experienced bear hunters will back up.
One qualifier ... a scared and angry bear can last quite a bit longer, such as one treed or bayed by hounds, and is not necessarily inclined to run when hit. Be careful in such situations. It's best to do that during gun season, with someone to back you up.
Good luck. I love bears, and see some most every day ... a juvenile male and a sow with three cubs yesterday. Lease hunters have killed one 583 lb., one 501 lb., and one 464 lb. bear on this farm in the past three years. I prefer to kill smaller ones personally, as they're better eating and much easier to handle.
Grizz
Grizz
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Thanks
Thanks for all the great replies.
Grizzly Adam you made a point I greatly agree with on cut on contact broadheads. I have a neurological disease that is slowly permanently damaging my nerve systems all over my body. I grew up hunting with a longbow and a recurve with which I always used cut on contact heads. I’m just getting into crossbows so I need all the help and advise I can get. Which cut on contacts work the best with crossbows in your experience? As you say I am looking, for pass throughs for those times it does take a little more trailing than you would think and that second hole ups the odds of a blood trail I can follow. Being and old longbow hunter I tend to be a throwback in time in my ways and in my thinking. I also tend to be that way growing up in southern Arkansas running the pine forests and swaps with an American Indian best friend so close be became closer than brothers.
Grizzly Adam you made a point I greatly agree with on cut on contact broadheads. I have a neurological disease that is slowly permanently damaging my nerve systems all over my body. I grew up hunting with a longbow and a recurve with which I always used cut on contact heads. I’m just getting into crossbows so I need all the help and advise I can get. Which cut on contacts work the best with crossbows in your experience? As you say I am looking, for pass throughs for those times it does take a little more trailing than you would think and that second hole ups the odds of a blood trail I can follow. Being and old longbow hunter I tend to be a throwback in time in my ways and in my thinking. I also tend to be that way growing up in southern Arkansas running the pine forests and swaps with an American Indian best friend so close be became closer than brothers.
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Hey, Paparock ...
Well, I can't tell you much about which broadheads work best on bears when shot from crossbows, because I'm new to crossbow shooting myself. I am not new to bowhunting, though, or to hunting bears ... I live with bears! Not that I actually fraternize with them, but it feels that way sometimes! I live in an unusually bear-rich region, with unusually big bears. I see some most every day, so they're not the mystery to me they are to some folks. I also see lots of bear-hunting mistakes, the foremost of which is the failure to take their size and bulk seriously. They're not deer.
I'm a former longbow hunter, too, and I've hunted a lot with a compound as well. I have nothing against triangular-tipped, replaceable blade heads (like the ever-popular Muzzy) ... and I have no experience with mechanicals, but all things being equal, I can say that a cut-on-contact head will penetrate better in most hunting situations, and that it definitely will in a marginal shot. You need every advantage you can get when poking a bear, especially if it's a big fat one.
I will refrain from saying that cut-on-contacts are "better" for bear hunting, because that comment would draw fire from those who don't like them. Will a Muzzy-type head work well, and kill a bear? Definitely. Will a mechanical head do the trick too? Sure it will. Both are particularly likely to do it when shot from a heavy crossbow, because of it's excellent speed and kinetic energy. However, the cut-on-contact head will do it's thing better, too ... and the thing that cut-on-contact heads do best is CUT ... they penetrate easily and without much loss of energy. Most of them are pretty much bombproof in design, too ... they can be tough, tough, tough.
Everybody will have their own preferences, and you will too ... but I will say that Zwickey broadheads are a good, tough, proven choice. I also like Muzzy Phantoms ... and the old reliable Bear Razorhead. If any of the three will fly well out of your crossbow, then you are set, if you get and keep them sharp. Seems to me that the guy who goes by BTStout shoots c-o-c heads, and I think I saw some Zwickeys in a pic he posted. Maybe he could tell you something about how they perform from an X-bow.
Best of luck bear hunting!
Grizz
Well, I can't tell you much about which broadheads work best on bears when shot from crossbows, because I'm new to crossbow shooting myself. I am not new to bowhunting, though, or to hunting bears ... I live with bears! Not that I actually fraternize with them, but it feels that way sometimes! I live in an unusually bear-rich region, with unusually big bears. I see some most every day, so they're not the mystery to me they are to some folks. I also see lots of bear-hunting mistakes, the foremost of which is the failure to take their size and bulk seriously. They're not deer.
I'm a former longbow hunter, too, and I've hunted a lot with a compound as well. I have nothing against triangular-tipped, replaceable blade heads (like the ever-popular Muzzy) ... and I have no experience with mechanicals, but all things being equal, I can say that a cut-on-contact head will penetrate better in most hunting situations, and that it definitely will in a marginal shot. You need every advantage you can get when poking a bear, especially if it's a big fat one.
I will refrain from saying that cut-on-contacts are "better" for bear hunting, because that comment would draw fire from those who don't like them. Will a Muzzy-type head work well, and kill a bear? Definitely. Will a mechanical head do the trick too? Sure it will. Both are particularly likely to do it when shot from a heavy crossbow, because of it's excellent speed and kinetic energy. However, the cut-on-contact head will do it's thing better, too ... and the thing that cut-on-contact heads do best is CUT ... they penetrate easily and without much loss of energy. Most of them are pretty much bombproof in design, too ... they can be tough, tough, tough.
Everybody will have their own preferences, and you will too ... but I will say that Zwickey broadheads are a good, tough, proven choice. I also like Muzzy Phantoms ... and the old reliable Bear Razorhead. If any of the three will fly well out of your crossbow, then you are set, if you get and keep them sharp. Seems to me that the guy who goes by BTStout shoots c-o-c heads, and I think I saw some Zwickeys in a pic he posted. Maybe he could tell you something about how they perform from an X-bow.
Best of luck bear hunting!
Grizz
Thanks
Thanks for the reply. Yes a lot of people don't relly respect black bear as much as they should. I had a friend that was in my wedding party that was killed and eaten by a black bear in Colorado. If he had been a hunter he most likely would still be here. The bear riped the door open to his trailer while he was cooking supper from the evidence, killed him inside, dragged him out side and fed on him for a couple of days before he was found. While most balck bears will run away at the sight, sound or smell of you. You best know what you are doing when you meet the ones that come for you rather than run away and I'm not talking about sows with cubs. Some black bears will let you know in no uncertain terms that not only are they not scared of you but that you look pretty tasty.
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No problem. Always glad to talk.
Saw a juvenile male this morning come out in the soybean field and chase a big ol' doe around a little. He wasn't trying to catch her; he wasn't interested in eating her; it was an act of agression, pure and simple. He's an arrogant little snot ... always has been. I know him, and have been seeing him all this year. He's very territorial, and very sassy. Not that he's big; he's not. I don't think he will be, either. Doesn't have the frame. Even so, he's trouble, and come bear season, I'm going to kill him if he gives me opportunity.
We have some big old whoppers around here. It's nothing unusual for someone to kill a bear well over 600 pounds every year right around here, and 500+ bear are common ... but in my experience, it's not the big ones that are trouble. Those big boars tend to be cautious and retiring, and lacking that, all they usually want is right-of-way. It seems like it's younger males that are the ones with attitude, just like teenagers trying to prove something. Sows are extremely aggressive if cornered with cubs, or if seperated from them.
Personally, I don't walk around in the woods, brush, and fields around here without carrying a firearm. This is not the park-like atmosphere found in some areas ... you never know what's gonna pop out, spring up, or come around ... and the stuff around here is THICK ... canebreaks, honeysuckle tangles, hardwood thickets, pine stands, swamps and pocosins. There are many places in the woods here where you can't see five feet. Bears aren't our only residents ... lots of red wolves around, too, but they're ghosts, as are the many bobcats. But the SNAKES ... big long timber rattlers, colorful copperheads, cottonmouths as big as your forearm. I love it ... it's a wildlife haven, but you have to be careful.
Grizz
Saw a juvenile male this morning come out in the soybean field and chase a big ol' doe around a little. He wasn't trying to catch her; he wasn't interested in eating her; it was an act of agression, pure and simple. He's an arrogant little snot ... always has been. I know him, and have been seeing him all this year. He's very territorial, and very sassy. Not that he's big; he's not. I don't think he will be, either. Doesn't have the frame. Even so, he's trouble, and come bear season, I'm going to kill him if he gives me opportunity.
We have some big old whoppers around here. It's nothing unusual for someone to kill a bear well over 600 pounds every year right around here, and 500+ bear are common ... but in my experience, it's not the big ones that are trouble. Those big boars tend to be cautious and retiring, and lacking that, all they usually want is right-of-way. It seems like it's younger males that are the ones with attitude, just like teenagers trying to prove something. Sows are extremely aggressive if cornered with cubs, or if seperated from them.
Personally, I don't walk around in the woods, brush, and fields around here without carrying a firearm. This is not the park-like atmosphere found in some areas ... you never know what's gonna pop out, spring up, or come around ... and the stuff around here is THICK ... canebreaks, honeysuckle tangles, hardwood thickets, pine stands, swamps and pocosins. There are many places in the woods here where you can't see five feet. Bears aren't our only residents ... lots of red wolves around, too, but they're ghosts, as are the many bobcats. But the SNAKES ... big long timber rattlers, colorful copperheads, cottonmouths as big as your forearm. I love it ... it's a wildlife haven, but you have to be careful.
Grizz
Sounds like home to me!
Grizzly Adam, that sure sounds a lot like where I grew up. I had many a run in with those big cottonmouths plus some big wild boar and razorbacks. Those young sub-adult bears are the ones that are usually the ones that are the most trouble. By the way, have you ever read any of Gary Sheldon’s books on bears? If not I would highly recommend them. I corresponded with him over my friend’s death by bear and he is the foremost expert on bear behavior and attack survival in North American by many peoples including my estimation. I learned a lot I didn’t know especially about reading the finer points of their behavior displays. You know what they say about Arkansas if it stings, bites, or can hunt you it probably lives here. Of course, that is a slight exaggeration but if you don’t know how to take care of yourself it’s best not to wander to far of the beaten path. I lived up in Wyoming for ten years and especially up there I cared my Ruger Super Redhawk .44Mag loaded with Randy Garrett 330 grain hardcast Hammerheads at 1400fps out of my 7 ½” barrel just in case. Grizzly were never out of the realm of possibility even if you were in areas where they were not supposed to be. I hate 500 pound surprises don’t you know plus not all animals walk on four legs.
What are your hunting regs like there? What kind of Xbow do you use. Please fill me in on the details.
Rocky/ Paparock
What are your hunting regs like there? What kind of Xbow do you use. Please fill me in on the details.
Rocky/ Paparock
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Hey, Paparock ...
I bought an Excalibur Exomax about a month ago. Was shooting a Mathews Switchback, a Martin Hunter recurve, and a Bear Royal Safari longbow lately, but due to complications from a carpal tunnel condition and surgery, plus a torn right bicep, I got a medical permit for crossbow hunting this year.
Setting up the Exomax with Excalibur's Right Stuff package and their VariZone scope was a piece of cake, as I am an experienced rifleman and practiced shot who is familiar with all aspects of setup, sighting in and benchwork. It is one accurate crossbow. I use tiny dots on a target butt to shoot at, about the size of an aspirin, instead of a bigger spot and groups. If you shot bolts at the same spot off a rest, I am sure you'd destroy a great many of them. I'm not that fond of "Robin Hoods" myself. With this Excalibur I think all one would prove is that he doesn't have enough sense to save his bolts by shooting at different spots.
I'd highly recommend Excalibur. Good parts, good finish, good function, simple, strong, fast and accurate. What's not to like? I don't like the quiver mounted to the bow, but I never have like mounted quivers, so that's just preference. It is good for carrying your bolts to the stand.
Haven't took it out hunting yet, but as I'm a very experienced hunter, I can tell you that killing deer with this crossbow is going to be a breeze. If they're in range and I do my part, no problem whatsoever. It is a sweet shooting sure thing ... much as a hunting weapon can be. It'll do it's part.
Our hunting regulations are typically southern. Long season, cheap rates, liberal bags, simple rules, broad range of choice as to take and manner of take. Really blessed compared to some places.
Grizz
I bought an Excalibur Exomax about a month ago. Was shooting a Mathews Switchback, a Martin Hunter recurve, and a Bear Royal Safari longbow lately, but due to complications from a carpal tunnel condition and surgery, plus a torn right bicep, I got a medical permit for crossbow hunting this year.
Setting up the Exomax with Excalibur's Right Stuff package and their VariZone scope was a piece of cake, as I am an experienced rifleman and practiced shot who is familiar with all aspects of setup, sighting in and benchwork. It is one accurate crossbow. I use tiny dots on a target butt to shoot at, about the size of an aspirin, instead of a bigger spot and groups. If you shot bolts at the same spot off a rest, I am sure you'd destroy a great many of them. I'm not that fond of "Robin Hoods" myself. With this Excalibur I think all one would prove is that he doesn't have enough sense to save his bolts by shooting at different spots.
I'd highly recommend Excalibur. Good parts, good finish, good function, simple, strong, fast and accurate. What's not to like? I don't like the quiver mounted to the bow, but I never have like mounted quivers, so that's just preference. It is good for carrying your bolts to the stand.
Haven't took it out hunting yet, but as I'm a very experienced hunter, I can tell you that killing deer with this crossbow is going to be a breeze. If they're in range and I do my part, no problem whatsoever. It is a sweet shooting sure thing ... much as a hunting weapon can be. It'll do it's part.
Our hunting regulations are typically southern. Long season, cheap rates, liberal bags, simple rules, broad range of choice as to take and manner of take. Really blessed compared to some places.
Grizz
Just used a Wasp Boss 4 blade to take a young male. It put a real hurt on him. 1/4 ing away in by the last 2 ribs and out just behind the front shoulder and leg. Arrow was 10 plus inches in the ground. Fly's like a dart. Nasty entrance and exit hole.
http://www.wasparchery.com/broadheads_fixed.html
http://www.wasparchery.com/broadheads_fixed.html