A GOOD EXAMPLE OF A CULL-BUCK

[Grizzly Adam]

Hey, Ya'll ...

Here's one I decided to remove from the herd here on the farm tonight. Yes, he's a spike ... and most likely always would have been. I noticed he had a severe limp while watching him, and decided to take him because he didn't act like a yearling deer and had obviously been injured.

Note the scrawny ham ... he had a baseball-sized knot on his femur; the muscle was only half the size of the other, and very flabby and soft in contrast to the normal leg.

He had only one normal-sized testicle; the other was about the size of a marble. His ribs were oddly shaped toward the abdomen, as the picture shows.

I'd guess that he got bumped by a car, but I can't explain that substandard gonad ... beats me.

This deer is a good example of the sort that (in my opinion) should be killed upon sight, if there is a tag available. No need to have him making contributions to the gene pool.

He's also a good example of why inflexible antler restrictions rob capable hunters of opportunities to cull poor quality bucks. On many hunt clubs, he wouldn't be a "shooter" ... and off he'd go, to be a spike next year too.

Shot him in a cut beanfield from a 20' box blind at 230 yards, according to the rangefinder, quartering away, entry at high-shoulder, exit from base of neck. Dropped on the spot, which they usually do with a high-shoulder shot. You can't see it very good in this picture, but there's a soybean stalk in his mouth!

He appeared to be a three-year old. He's in the fridge now!

I'm glad I don't hunt in a state or with a club that tells me what bucks need killing and what bucks don't.

The truck is a 1984 Ford DUV ... Deer Utility Vehicle! Hardly ever leaves the dirt!

Grizz

[wildwindom]

Nice going grizz. We dont have any one here either telling us what size buck to shoot either think goodness. But only one buck is allowed in the state you can get up to six does i think if you go to all the right zones.

[Grizzly Adam]

Of the six deer we're allowed, we can take four bucks if we want to, and have to take two. Our harvest report card (we don't have "tags" anymore) has these slots:

Hunter's Choice _______________
Hunter's Choice _______________
Deer _______________
Deer _______________
Antlerless Deer _______________
Antlerless Deer _______________

We don't have to check 'em in anymore, just punch a hole next to the slot you want, and call 1-800-I-GOT-ONE to get the harvest authorization number. Much better than having to go to some check station, like we used to ... we're WAY out in the sticks here.

Our region is under MAXIMUM SEASON, which allows the shooting of up to four does all season long from the first week of September to January 1. There are no "dead times" in between archery, muzzleloader, and rifle seasons. We can take two a day.

It's a nice, long, comfortable season.

I always shoot cripples and weaker looking deer if I can.

Grizz

[Big Al]

Grizz: it does sound like eboli. Of course I would think about getting rid of that meat if I were you. To say maybe, a politican?

[Grizzly Adam]

Come again on that, Al?

You mean ebola, the virus that causes hemorrhagic fever?

If so, probably not, since the buck wasn't feverish, throwing up or affected by diarrhea. Of course, there was some internal and external bleeding upon examination ... but I think that Remington Core-Lokt caused that. No doubt the cause of death was shock and multiple organ failure, though, so you may indeed be on to something.

I can think of deer parts I'd give a politician, but they wouldn't be hams, backstraps and tenderloins.

I'll refrain from political comment.

Grizz

[Big Al]

[tcthomas]

Grizzly, I'm curious what makes you think he would have always been a spike?

Also, how did you tell that it was probably a three year old?


Thanks,

Tim

[Grizzly Adam]

Hey, Tim ...

His teeth were consistent with three year old wear. Every other secondary physical characteristic was consistent with a typical three-year old deer.

After a while, if you observe enough deer, handle enough deer and butcher enough deer, you learn to be a pretty good judge of age ... but the teeth don't lie.

As to his being a spike, that's just a pretty good bet. Three years old, a small spike, badly hurt, one functioning testicle ... it's unlikely that he would have been anything else next year.

You may be thinking he looks awfully small for a three-year old, but our deer are small ... and he was stressed besides.

While we do have some nice antlers running about here, I have also killed spikes that were six or seven years old in the area, especially in the neighboring county, so the old "it'll be bigger next year" rule definitely does not apply here. A mature buck with spikes often remains a mature buck with spikes.

Could be different where you're from, and you're free to disagree.

Few rules always apply when it comes to deer.

Grizz

[wabi]

Grizz,
Wish I had some pics of the culls where I hunt. I've taken several over the past years, and the antler quality is slowly improving. There is one spike I'd love to get a shot at. He's been a spike for two or three years now, but his spikes are twice as long as his ears and almost straight!

[saxman]

Nice kill Grizz.

[tkstae]

Good Job Grizz!!

[LV2HNT]

Good one Grizz, I agree that some deer just need to be taken out of the heard. Being able to tell a deers age and health is a great asset in deciding to take a deer like that. I am on the fence about the once a spike always a spike belief because I have heard of studies proving both sides and I have seen some old deer with little spikes, but I have also seen some with very large ones too. Two of the things that we have too many of in this country are polititions and laws. I agree that making QDM a law isn't the best idea in some situations also. It is a shame that some people can't just practice good management on their own. It is because of them that those laws are being made. They are the ones who won't honor the law and will get away with it while other good hunters that make honest mistakes or take deer that should be removed will be punished.

[Grizzly Adam]

I agree that there are no hard and fast rules about the spike buck factor. I believe a great deal of it has to do with the mineral content of the soil in any given region. Our soil is loamy, organic blackland with relatively low mineral content ... and antlers tend to the smaller side. A "trophy" buck here wouldn't go 100 inches in most cases ... but then, everything's relative, isn't it?

My brother lives in an area of Indiana where spikes are rare. Many first year bucks have impressive four-point racks.

Some spikes here develop better antlers later, and I believe this is generally true of healthy ones that live several years. By experience, I find it unlikely that a three year old buck with spikes will ever amount to much in this particular area. Don't know about anywhere else.

Hard to tell about the cripple factor. Some crippled or injured bucks develop fantastically wierd nontypical racks ... but again, I think that it's unlikely right here.

An outfitter friend of mine in the adjoining county enforced a four-point and up rule on his land and leases, letting the spikes and cowhorns walk ... and he seems to have had generally better racks over the last ten years. He killed the biggest racked deer I've ever seen locally on September 11, and I believe it was a result of his letting small bucks alone. They need time to grow.

Most of the time, I kill does for freezer meat, because lots of good-old-boys around here don't want to kill a "slickhead" ... and don't have sense enough to realize just how badly we need to be killing some ... so I have a sort of default buck management plan. I'll take one little one per year usually, but no more. We have 50+ deer per square mile here.

The cripples I kill without exception.