Just read your other post about CH baiting a bear under his tree for A WEEK!?!?!?!???? I can't believe what I was reading!!! Of course after a week that bear isn't going to be afraid of him anymore!!! Way to teach that little bear how NOT to fear humans!
OK here's a manual for you:
How to Create A Nuisance Bear: Step #1 Set up bait and hang out with him for a week using him as a cute photo shoot model.
GIVE YOUR HEADS A SHAKE!
I lived out west for many years and spent a fair bit of time in grizzly country out there - I know & deeply respect bears. I would never set up bait under a tree stand and then spend a week with the cute little bear. You are harming the bear by aclimatizing him to humans. Don't you get it? That's just what T. Treadwell did - (this time the comparison is intentional!)
Charging Grizzly Bear footage
Grizzly Adam wrote :
VixChix :... without getting into the whole " taking a life we didn't need thing " .... trust me ... if you don't think there is a huge difference in hunting whitetail deer ( huge renewable population ) , compared to grizzly bear hunting ( shrinking population = less than 1200 live in the lower 48 ) .... well it is easy to see why we have different opinions ...
Grizzly are dangerous game and whitetails are not ... so the risks hunting grizzlies is way out there , compared to whitetails ...
I have huge respect for the outdoors and wildlife ... I also have an unexplainable urge to hunt ( that's a whole other debate ) ... because I feel it is a basic instinct in some of us ( unexpalainable )... I enjoy the challenge of getting up close .... the Minisrty issues tags to control the population and I do my part to support the harvest ... I also shot approx 30 other deer with my camera , I took a buck and a doe with my crossbow and 1 doe with my shotgun , and still left 2 tags unfilled , so I don't believe I'm a wastefull hunter ....
Vixchic wrote :
I have a huge respect for someone like Fred Bear ( did you ever see the footage of him taking an Alsakan Brown at approx 30 yards with his recurve ? ... or the footage last year of that successfull archery hunter that took a huge brute at approx 15 yards .... and I don't belive either had rifle back up !
Guiding rich customers is on Grizzly Bears is less appealling to me considering their shrinking numbers !
But that is just my opininon ...
Another member wrote :
Anyway .... we could argue for hours on this , but it boils down to , as Grizzly Adams said ... we all have different opinions .... and I don't really like hashing things out over a keyboard ...
I have that DVD and I said the same thing to my wife ...I remember well that the first time I saw a TV spot about that guy, I told my wife, "Well, they'll be extracting bits of him from bear scat one day."
VixChix :... without getting into the whole " taking a life we didn't need thing " .... trust me ... if you don't think there is a huge difference in hunting whitetail deer ( huge renewable population ) , compared to grizzly bear hunting ( shrinking population = less than 1200 live in the lower 48 ) .... well it is easy to see why we have different opinions ...
Grizzly are dangerous game and whitetails are not ... so the risks hunting grizzlies is way out there , compared to whitetails ...
I have huge respect for the outdoors and wildlife ... I also have an unexplainable urge to hunt ( that's a whole other debate ) ... because I feel it is a basic instinct in some of us ( unexpalainable )... I enjoy the challenge of getting up close .... the Minisrty issues tags to control the population and I do my part to support the harvest ... I also shot approx 30 other deer with my camera , I took a buck and a doe with my crossbow and 1 doe with my shotgun , and still left 2 tags unfilled , so I don't believe I'm a wastefull hunter ....
Vixchic wrote :
Can't respond without causing a fuss because " paying customer , etc " gets my fur up ! Shows a lack of respect to the animal in my opinion ( the bear is less valuable then the paying customer ) ...So R.J., as a guide you would avoid killing a charging grizzly at 10 yds because it MIGHT only be a bluff? (Remember that you are also responsible for the safety of the paying customer/hunter and the camera man.) If so then take the next logical step - avoid killing anything at all.
Again .... don't want to dredge into this for fear of offending you .... but the whole " guides decision " and " live bears are his livelyhood " .... leaves a bad taste in my mouth ....Did you kill you deer this year R.J. because you're starving? I doubt it. You took a life of a fine animal... and it wasn't even charging you. How can you justify killing the deer you didn't "need" on one hand and yet judge the guide's decision to shoot the charging grizzly? What's the difference?
In the video the guide seems greatly troubled by the fact that he was in the situation where is needed to take action. The live bears are his livelyhood - I'm sure he hated to have to kill the sow.
I have a huge respect for someone like Fred Bear ( did you ever see the footage of him taking an Alsakan Brown at approx 30 yards with his recurve ? ... or the footage last year of that successfull archery hunter that took a huge brute at approx 15 yards .... and I don't belive either had rifle back up !
Guiding rich customers is on Grizzly Bears is less appealling to me considering their shrinking numbers !
But that is just my opininon ...
Another member wrote :
That is the bottom line in my opinion ....But with at least 3 heavily armed guys I think that bear stood little chance of actually completeing a charge....she had stopped and stood up it looked like and was an easy target if she decided to keep coming .
Anyway .... we could argue for hours on this , but it boils down to , as Grizzly Adams said ... we all have different opinions .... and I don't really like hashing things out over a keyboard ...
See Ya. ... R.J. > " Remember , Trophies are measured by the time and energy expended to get them , not the size or quantity of the quarry "
Vixchick : So much for being civil eh ! 
You must have been typing same time as me so I didn't see your last post until I had already posted ....
So I will save some time on this .... you are starting to bore me now
Don't flatter yourself to think your opinion actually means something to me !!!
Last I will say on it .... have a nice day ! ZZZZZZZZZZZ
PS: Don't bother with response or PM's ... from what you have spewed in your last post .... joined Nov 2006 , 80 posts and true colors are coming out already .... well I got better things to do ...
You must have been typing same time as me so I didn't see your last post until I had already posted ....
So I will save some time on this .... you are starting to bore me now
Don't flatter yourself to think your opinion actually means something to me !!!
Last I will say on it .... have a nice day ! ZZZZZZZZZZZ
PS: Don't bother with response or PM's ... from what you have spewed in your last post .... joined Nov 2006 , 80 posts and true colors are coming out already
.... well I got better things to do ...See Ya. ... R.J. > " Remember , Trophies are measured by the time and energy expended to get them , not the size or quantity of the quarry "
Sorry, but I don't understand. What does the date I joined or the number of posts have to do with anything?R.J. wrote:Don't bother with response or PM's ... from what you have spewed in your last post .... joined Nov 2006 , 80 posts and true colors are coming out already
My "true colours are coming out already"? What is that supposed to mean?
RJ, just a couple of quick comments. I understand your concern for the grizzlies but in my family's eyes I'm an endangered species too. In fact there is only one of me. so, if it came down to a potentially lethal confrontation between me and a grizzly you know which way I'd go.
As for CH and his story well, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who feels uncomfortable about it. As some one who owns property in a nuisance bear area and who knows what a problem bear who lose their fear of humans can be I shutter everytime I here a story where bears become too comfortable with humans. If you're going to hunt then hunt. If a bear comes along which you decide not to take and he starts to show signs of becoming too comfortable do your best to make the experience unpleasant for him (and I'm not saying kill him). This is for the sake of he bear and anyone else who may come in contact with him in the future.
Differing opinions, even heated ones, on hunting techniques or ethics is one thing but to try to invalidate a members input with that kind of resonse is totally unacceptable! To say that their opinion doesn't matter is NOT what this board is about. If this forum is going elitist, where only the posts that don't don't bore the likes of yourself are valid, then my days here are numbered. I really hope a moderator picks up on this.
As for CH and his story well, I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who feels uncomfortable about it. As some one who owns property in a nuisance bear area and who knows what a problem bear who lose their fear of humans can be I shutter everytime I here a story where bears become too comfortable with humans. If you're going to hunt then hunt. If a bear comes along which you decide not to take and he starts to show signs of becoming too comfortable do your best to make the experience unpleasant for him (and I'm not saying kill him). This is for the sake of he bear and anyone else who may come in contact with him in the future.
ABSOLUTELY UNCALLED FOR!!!!So I will save some time on this .... you are starting to bore me now
Don't flatter yourself to think your opinion actually means something to me !!!
Last I will say on it .... have a nice day ! ZZZZZZZZZZZ
Differing opinions, even heated ones, on hunting techniques or ethics is one thing but to try to invalidate a members input with that kind of resonse is totally unacceptable! To say that their opinion doesn't matter is NOT what this board is about. If this forum is going elitist, where only the posts that don't don't bore the likes of yourself are valid, then my days here are numbered. I really hope a moderator picks up on this.
P.S. If you don't want a response, DON"T POST!PS: Don't bother with response or PM's ... from what you have spewed in your last post .... joined Nov 2006 , 80 posts and true colors are coming out already .... well I got better things to do ...
Vixchick wrote :
TPM wrote :
You obviously don't know me very well , so lets leave it at that .
Your opinion of me matters very little in the big picture ....
As for hunting bears over bait .... type that in as " Google search " .... most articles say it it the most common and effective method of hunting bears.... I'm no expert on bear hunting ( have only taken 1 with my bow ) .... but there are many forum members who's opinions I respect that have hunted bear in this manner for years ... and to imply that we are creating nuisance bears , is a joke .
Vixchick / TPM :
Anyway .... I need another friend like I need a hole in the head .... so in respect to the other forum members please avoid my posts and I'll do the same for yours ... it will avoid any more trash talk that I am embaressed to be apart of
... I wish I could explain it better than that , but Im better with pictures than words
Man I hate to be part of anything that drags this forum down .... and have always tried to contribute positively ... in topics , members in need etc.
TPM wrote :
Both of you .... please nave a nice day !
Trust me ... I did , when I read your last response !GIVE YOUR HEADS A SHAKE!
TPM wrote :
Never ever claimed to be the voice of the forum ... just a voice on the forum .... I basically hunt , take pictures and have fun outdoors ... I respect the opininons and views of many , many forum members , and offered help on certain topics when I can , where I can .Differing opinions, even heated ones, on hunting techniques or ethics is one thing but to try to invalidate a members input with that kind of resonse is totally unacceptable! To say that their opinion doesn't matter is NOT what this board is about. If this forum is going elitist, where only the posts that don't don't bore the likes of yourself are valid, then my days here are numbered. I really hope a moderator picks up on this.
Quote:
PS: Don't bother with response or PM's ... from what you have spewed in your last post .... joined Nov 2006 , 80 posts and true colors are coming out already .... well I got better things to do ...
P.S. If you don't want a response, DON"T POST!
You obviously don't know me very well , so lets leave it at that .
Your opinion of me matters very little in the big picture ....
As for hunting bears over bait .... type that in as " Google search " .... most articles say it it the most common and effective method of hunting bears.... I'm no expert on bear hunting ( have only taken 1 with my bow ) .... but there are many forum members who's opinions I respect that have hunted bear in this manner for years ... and to imply that we are creating nuisance bears , is a joke .
Vixchick / TPM :
Anyway .... I need another friend like I need a hole in the head .... so in respect to the other forum members please avoid my posts and I'll do the same for yours ... it will avoid any more trash talk that I am embaressed to be apart of
... I wish I could explain it better than that , but Im better with pictures than wordsMan I hate to be part of anything that drags this forum down .... and have always tried to contribute positively ... in topics , members in need etc.
TPM wrote :
Trust me I won't reply to the 2 of you again .... you are "too tightly wrapped " and I respect the other forum members too much to carry on .P.S. If you don't want a response, DON"T POST!
Both of you .... please nave a nice day !
See Ya. ... R.J. > " Remember , Trophies are measured by the time and energy expended to get them , not the size or quantity of the quarry "
Hunting bears over bait does not create nuisance bears. Allowing one to get comfortable enough to sleep under your stand is another issue all together. Talk to the MNR about it. Maybe you'll believe them.
You can try to white-wash it all you want but if you think that your belittling comments about another member "boring you" and letting them know that their opinion doesn't matter is appropriate behaviour for this board then so be it. You obviously just don't get it so we'll leave it at that.
You can try to white-wash it all you want but if you think that your belittling comments about another member "boring you" and letting them know that their opinion doesn't matter is appropriate behaviour for this board then so be it. You obviously just don't get it so we'll leave it at that.
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Grizzly Adam
- Posts: 5701
- Joined: Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:36 pm
- Location: Decatur County, Indiana
Hey, VixChix (And everyone else) ...
Just got back from a county commissioner's meeting, so I hadn't read this thread since early this morning.
I'm not going to get into the middle of this, 'cause I'm real tired of talking and debate today, but I will say this:
Don't ya'll get on each other's bad side here. If hurtful things have been said, let that be water under the bridge ... say "sorry" if it's needed, and go on being part of this excellent forum.
In my estimation, the very reason nobody has said much about your conflict is that everyone is probably hoping it will just die a natural death, and that we'll all go on enjoying our interactions here.
Just because you two have annoyed each other doesn't mean it has to be anything other than that. We all rub each other wrong sometimes. Let's extend the benefit of the doubt, be peacemakers, and keep on keeping on.
As for me, I'll just say:
Here's another opportunity for this forum to shine. Take it!
Sincerely,
Just got back from a county commissioner's meeting, so I hadn't read this thread since early this morning.
I'm not going to get into the middle of this, 'cause I'm real tired of talking and debate today, but I will say this:
Don't ya'll get on each other's bad side here. If hurtful things have been said, let that be water under the bridge ... say "sorry" if it's needed, and go on being part of this excellent forum.
In my estimation, the very reason nobody has said much about your conflict is that everyone is probably hoping it will just die a natural death, and that we'll all go on enjoying our interactions here.
Just because you two have annoyed each other doesn't mean it has to be anything other than that. We all rub each other wrong sometimes. Let's extend the benefit of the doubt, be peacemakers, and keep on keeping on.
As for me, I'll just say:
Here's another opportunity for this forum to shine. Take it!
Sincerely,
Grizz
Couldn't agree more Grizzly AdamGrizzly Adam wrote:Hey, VixChix (And everyone else) ...
Just got back from a county commissioner's meeting, so I hadn't read this thread since early this morning.
I'm not going to get into the middle of this, 'cause I'm real tired of talking and debate today, but I will say this:
Don't ya'll get on each other's bad side here. If hurtful things have been said, let that be water under the bridge ... say "sorry" if it's needed, and go on being part of this excellent forum.
In my estimation, the very reason nobody has said much about your conflict is that everyone is probably hoping it will just die a natural death, and that we'll all go on enjoying our interactions here.
Just because you two have annoyed each other doesn't mean it has to be anything other than that. We all rub each other wrong sometimes. Let's extend the benefit of the doubt, be peacemakers, and keep on keeping on.
As for me, I'll just say:
Here's another opportunity for this forum to shine. Take it!
Sincerely,
(I sense that there's a bit of an "old boys club" thing going on here. Being a newbie & being a female... well, I guess that means I don't have a clue?)
I'm the most easy-going person in the world, I don't get angry and I'm capable of putting up with a lot, but I can't abide misinformation being propogated and others being misled.
The issue that raised my eyebrows was back on pg 2 of this thread - that it seemed to be OK to habituate a bear to a human, then portray the person as noble for not shooting the bear that now no longer has any fear of humans. Shooting isn't the answer - avoiding the situation where a bear becomes comfortable with a human in the first place is!
Hunting "over bait" is an acceptable practice, but it doesn't mean to place your stand directly over the bait - why would anyone put themselves in a position where a bear could so easily keep them from leaving a stand? The best stands are where one can come & go undetected.
The ONE point that I really want to make on this thread is that our interactions with bears in the wilderness often affect how a bear will respond to the next person it encounters. We should discourage interactions which would lessen the bears respect for humans, for the sake of the bear's future and other humans.
All animals, (deer, bear, etc.) need sanctuary - whether it is within huge wilderness areas or within a little patch of rural woods. We need to let them have that sanctuary. We don't do them any favours by intruding any more than we absolutely have to. Pressured bears become less respectful of humans, pressured deer become nocturnal or leave.
This is presumably a forum for hunters. I can't believe that everyone else is OK with some of the things said here. (I'm not talking about the personal stuff - that's water off my back.) It should be about respect for the habits & habitat of wildlife.
I'm the most easy-going person in the world, I don't get angry and I'm capable of putting up with a lot, but I can't abide misinformation being propogated and others being misled.
The issue that raised my eyebrows was back on pg 2 of this thread - that it seemed to be OK to habituate a bear to a human, then portray the person as noble for not shooting the bear that now no longer has any fear of humans. Shooting isn't the answer - avoiding the situation where a bear becomes comfortable with a human in the first place is!
Hunting "over bait" is an acceptable practice, but it doesn't mean to place your stand directly over the bait - why would anyone put themselves in a position where a bear could so easily keep them from leaving a stand? The best stands are where one can come & go undetected.
The ONE point that I really want to make on this thread is that our interactions with bears in the wilderness often affect how a bear will respond to the next person it encounters. We should discourage interactions which would lessen the bears respect for humans, for the sake of the bear's future and other humans.
All animals, (deer, bear, etc.) need sanctuary - whether it is within huge wilderness areas or within a little patch of rural woods. We need to let them have that sanctuary. We don't do them any favours by intruding any more than we absolutely have to. Pressured bears become less respectful of humans, pressured deer become nocturnal or leave.
This is presumably a forum for hunters. I can't believe that everyone else is OK with some of the things said here. (I'm not talking about the personal stuff - that's water off my back.) It should be about respect for the habits & habitat of wildlife.
What were these guys trying to do killing a Grizzly bear ANYWAY. Trying to prove their manly hood?????
I blame the guide. When anyone goes into this kind of territory, you can't tell me they were surprised by the charging bear. Everyone knows that Grizzlies, Brown, or Polar Bears are unpredictable and DANGEROUS.
Y0U SHOULD ALWAYS BE ON GUARD, and know every second what your next move will be if, and when, any bear may attack or false charge. In my mind that's not professional.
Grey Owl
I blame the guide. When anyone goes into this kind of territory, you can't tell me they were surprised by the charging bear. Everyone knows that Grizzlies, Brown, or Polar Bears are unpredictable and DANGEROUS.
Y0U SHOULD ALWAYS BE ON GUARD, and know every second what your next move will be if, and when, any bear may attack or false charge. In my mind that's not professional.
Grey Owl
Vixchick : Sorry to lead you astray with the short explaination of CH's bear hunt earlier .... here is a little more detail ...
It was on private property .... baited in natural cover , his stand was approx 25 yards downwind of the baited area... in the course of the week ... the bear ran off everything that tried to approach , from turkey vultures , deer , and even prevented a larger bear from coming in to its food source on one evening just before legal shooting time was up ( CH had been waiting for a mature bear ) ... Many times the bear was under and around his tree ... CH got some awsome footage , including it sleeping after it was chasing turkey vultures , and judging by the footage it never did know he has there ... it didn't wind him which means he had a great set-up .
The last day when CH went to come down from the tree ... the bear could not smell him ... it can be seen in the footage squinting towards him , but couldn't make him out ...so CH had to make an effort to show he was a human threat ...
In his opinion and mine CH's hunt was 100 % successfull , and he never even let and arrow fly ! ... he got a week in the bush enjoying the " nature channel " .... not all successful hunts end with a kill ! ( at least not in our group )
I tried to be civil with my previous views right up to the point you posted ...
I don't believe CH's encounter with that bear has turned it into a people harming nuisance bear .... at least that's not what the landowners who gave CH permission to hunt have to say !
It is obvious we don't see eye to eye .... I'm cool with that ... so I will try to avoid your posts so we don't get into any future mud slinging ... I have never been good with words ... I prefere pictures ... they speak for themselves and less chance somebody will misunderstand them .
Bottom line .... I have spent way to much time on this thread and it is going nowhere ... so " Best to you " ... In your future dealings on this forum ... Don't let my difference of opinion or lack of resect for your input , stop you from enjoying the rest of this forum ...
Got to go .... I'm getting two finger typing cramps !
It was on private property .... baited in natural cover , his stand was approx 25 yards downwind of the baited area... in the course of the week ... the bear ran off everything that tried to approach , from turkey vultures , deer , and even prevented a larger bear from coming in to its food source on one evening just before legal shooting time was up ( CH had been waiting for a mature bear ) ... Many times the bear was under and around his tree ... CH got some awsome footage , including it sleeping after it was chasing turkey vultures , and judging by the footage it never did know he has there ... it didn't wind him which means he had a great set-up .
The last day when CH went to come down from the tree ... the bear could not smell him ... it can be seen in the footage squinting towards him , but couldn't make him out ...so CH had to make an effort to show he was a human threat ...
In his opinion and mine CH's hunt was 100 % successfull , and he never even let and arrow fly ! ... he got a week in the bush enjoying the " nature channel " .... not all successful hunts end with a kill ! ( at least not in our group )
I tried to be civil with my previous views right up to the point you posted ...
OK here's a manual for you:
How to Create A Nuisance Bear:
Then I lost respect for your opinion and tried to convey that thought as simply as I could ....GIVE YOUR HEADS A SHAKE!
I don't believe CH's encounter with that bear has turned it into a people harming nuisance bear .... at least that's not what the landowners who gave CH permission to hunt have to say !
It is obvious we don't see eye to eye .... I'm cool with that ... so I will try to avoid your posts so we don't get into any future mud slinging ... I have never been good with words ... I prefere pictures ... they speak for themselves and less chance somebody will misunderstand them .
Bottom line .... I have spent way to much time on this thread and it is going nowhere ... so " Best to you " ... In your future dealings on this forum ... Don't let my difference of opinion or lack of resect for your input , stop you from enjoying the rest of this forum ...
Got to go .... I'm getting two finger typing cramps !
See Ya. ... R.J. > " Remember , Trophies are measured by the time and energy expended to get them , not the size or quantity of the quarry "
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bait pile willie
- Posts: 657
- Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 7:56 pm
- Location: london ontario.