Michael Waddell

Crossbow Hunting

Moderator: Excalibur Marketing Dude

flbuckmaster
Posts: 969
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:23 pm
Location: CRAWFORDVILLE, FLORIDA

Michael Waddell

Post by flbuckmaster »

I saw one of those "say it aint So Sax" tv shows today :cry: . Realtree Roadtrips played a show on the outdoor channel today that broke my heart. Michael Waddell was bowhunting Elk when the blunder occured. As the bull was closing, Michael launched a 50+ yard "arra" and hit the bull in the liver/gut area. He kept stating he was sick and felt "as low as a snakes belly" about the shot and lack of blood. He and 4 other hunters spent most of the next day looking for "his Bull" :roll: . Luckily they did find the bull nearly a mile away.
I am sure Mr. Waddell can make that shot 75% of the time, :roll: but this was one of those times when it just didnt happen. I think the bull streached to answer the guides calls putting the "arra" too far back. He could just as easy stepped forward making the "marginal hit" a "terrible hit" with no recovery. The point is boys and girls, and "newbies, it doesnt matter how good a shot you are, you cant anticipate the movement of your quarry at marginal yardages. I am afraid Corporate money has put pressure on outdoor tv shows for more footage. I have seen a minimum of 30 new hunting shows divided between the Outdoor Channel, Verses tv, Pursuit Channel, and ESPN, (on direct TV) within the past year alone. I hope sponsorship of major venders will not cause a rushed or marginal shot again, but if I were a betting man, I would bet against it.
jay
Invalid Session. Please resubmit the form.
Invalid Session. Please resubmit the form.
Invalid Session. Please resubmit the form.
raydaughety
Posts: 2411
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 11:32 am
Location: North Carolina

Post by raydaughety »

I agree with what most of your comments but without naming names, I spoke with an Outdoor Channel hosted " Professional Hunter" at an outdoor show and I questioned him about the video where when he took a long shot at a trophy whitetail and hit him "WAY" far back but the buck mysteriously went down within sight. When he went to recover the deer, ho only had 1 arrow left in his quiver. He had 6 arrows left after the shot. Where were the 5 missing arrows. He had no explanation, other than, "that's TV. We do what we can and apologize for nothing, "at least on camera". It's all about the money shot. As far as Michael Waddell, shame on him for trying the shot but my hat's off to him to continue what he started by finding the bull the next day. I'm sure you're right Jay, these guys have a lot of pressure put on them for the "money shot" causing them to do things that they wouldn't normally do.
God Bless !!!!!!!!!

Ray
Mike P
Posts: 2091
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 9:58 pm

Post by Mike P »

In my capacity of "official scorer" I run into a lot of our outdoor "celebrities" at shows every year. Many are aware of our farm and our efforts to produce large whitetail bucks without the benefit of high fences or imported high dollar stud bucks to enhance our gene pool. And every year without fail I am approached by one Production Company or another to host a hunt with their "star" at our farm. And every year I decline.

I do this because I know what they know. What they do is a business. It is about the promotion of products and services. And there is nothing wrong with it at all. It is free enterprise working. And it is a benefit in the long run to all of us that enjoy our sport of hunting. We should all understand that before we cast the stones.

As Jay mentions, the "stars" are under intense pressure to show success. It is little wonder they will push the envelope to gain this success. And they will continue to push this envelope as they try to put these amazing hunts in front of us. The sponsors of these shows insist on it. It is how they sell their products.

Some of you have observed a tone in some of the things I write where commercialization has entered the sport. I always question has this aspect of our sport altered the way those associated with this commercialization, i.e. the "stars," perceive the sport. Has it changed them? Most will say no and tell us that the sport is their passion and it has not changed from day one. And I truly believe many of them have convinced themselves that this is the case.

Of course it is easy to see that it has changed them even if they cannot see this fact themselves. As soon as you put your first toe over that line from sport to profit, the change is inevitable. Would Waddell have taken that shot if he was not pushed to produce and be a part of a successful hunt on film for a TV audience? I doubt it. And as to the missing arrows in the quiver, it's anyone's guess as to what transpired. The answers lie dormant on the cutting room floor.

I once wrote on this forum that the first thing I would ask Bill T should I run into him was how has he changed his perspective on his/our sport from the time it went from making a crossbow for his own use to making them for our use.

The trick to this whole thing is to understand the business and separate it from the sport. Will perceived hunting ethics be pushed to the limit. You betcha! But hopefully, they will not be pushed by us. Hopefully we are the ones that respect the ethics. We are the ones that respect the sport.

Recently I told you how I had a major buck within thirty-seven yards and I would not pull the trigger. Some of you said you would have. And that is fine, you are better shots then me and more confident in your kill zone. How would I have reacted were this hunt being filmed? Would I have taken the shot? Sadly, the answer is probably yes. The situation would have changed from a sport to a commercial enterprise. And as we have seen recently in our world, ethics always take a back seat to profit.

I guess what I am trying to get across here is that we probably need to cut these guys some slack. They wouldn't be doing what they are doing if there were no demand for it. And let's face it; we are the ones that supply that demand. And the "stars" are just playing their rolls in the production for profit drama they present us.

It is important to know that the real stars are the guys out there without the benefit of all the privileges given to the TV "stars." These are the guys who hunt the public lands. These are the guys that invest time on farms helping the landowner with chores in order to hunt his land. And these are the same guys that every year harvest world records. I may be mistaken, but I haven't noticed any TV "stars" with world record whitetail bucks popping up at shows.

No, the true stars are you guys out there pursuing the animal of your dreams for the pure love of the experience.

I think it is important to always remember that.
User avatar
wabi
Posts: 13443
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2002 9:21 pm
Location: Ohio

Post by wabi »

I guess what I am trying to get across here is that we probably need to cut these guys some slack.
Mike,
I'll have to disagree. They are perhaps under pressure, but an unethical shot is an unethical shot, whether I'm trying to put meat in the freezer, hang a head on the wall, or being filmed to make a living!
I'll be the first to admit ethics is a purely personal decision, but a 50+ yard shot under about any conditions with archery equipment is not a good choice. With an arrow it's not about your accuracy abilities, it's about the game's position/location when the arrow makes contact! I'll cut a newby some slack for an out of range shot, but an experienced hunter should know better. If hunting is nothing more than a business for Mr. Waddell, perhaps he should look for another vocation.
I think as hunters we are the audience these shows are aimed at, and we should take the lead in preaching ethics. If some actor is making unethical shots on game just to gain a viewing audience we should let the producers know we are not impressed, and demand good ethics be applied! If not, we always have the option of watching another show, and advertising broadcast to an audience of 0 is not going to be broadcast for long. :wink:
wabi
Woody Williams
Posts: 6440
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2002 5:07 pm

Post by Woody Williams »

When money enters the picture a lot of "ethics" goes out the window..

These video guys have to get a kill on tape as they can't sell a non kill tape to anyone.

I spent 10 days last year on a pretend moose hunt with my crossbow. This was being videoed. I say "pretend moose hunt" as the closest we could get to a post rut bull was 72 yards. The guide basically todl me we wre nuts if we thought we could call in a bull after rut. He was right.

I love to hunt, but I will never do a video hunt again..too much krap to put up with.....
Woody Williams

We have met the enemy and he is us - Pogo Possum

Hunting in Indiana at [size=84][color=Red][b][url=http://huntingindiana.proboards52.com]HUNT-INDIANA[/url][/b][/color][/size]
pdislow
Posts: 501
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2004 1:23 pm
Location: wilmington n.c.

Post by pdislow »

i agree with Woody about the money and ethics thing! But, one of the reasons they are "stars" and i am not is because they are much better shots than i am. a shot i would not take may be ethical for someone at a much higher skill level than mine. my.02 worth
thanks philip
Rich
Posts: 1512
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:33 am
Location: Woodford, VA

Post by Rich »

I've seen a lot of shows and talked to a few elk hunters and a 50 yards shot is not that uncommon of a shot for an elk. The large vital area on an elk does allow for some margin of error, plus with the high speed/flat shooting bows of today (which I'm sure MW was shooting) further compensate for that. Not condoning his shot or anything, but my understanding is that western hunters typically shot longer ranges than us whitetail hunters.

Rich
raydaughety
Posts: 2411
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2003 11:32 am
Location: North Carolina

Post by raydaughety »

Do these producers not look at the proposed footage and "search" for the kind of things that we are talking about? Example, being a resident of NC and close to a large Bass fishery, it's fair to say that I have seen, spoken to Mr. Hank Parker a dozen or so times. He's even visited our Church while fishing a local tournament and signed Tyler's Bible. I've Alway thought of Mr Parker as a good Christian man and true, ethical outdoorsman until: I watched an episode where his archery hunt was ruined by weather and he was forced to hunt with a muzzleloader. Well the only muzzleloader within a hundred miles was an old one with a cheap scope that he paid $50.00 for at a pawn shop. They tried sighting in the weapon but there was a problem with either the optics, mounts or the rifle itself, causing it to hit exactly 5' to the right :shock: . Hank, actually took this unsafe weapon weapon to the woods and when the opportunity presented itself at a trophy whitetail, he took the shot and missed as he saw his bullet hit the show 3' to the right of the deer. Instead of accepting defeat and calling it a hunt, he poured out some more C'mere Deer and of course that was what caused the "fired at" buck to return the following day. Hank had figured out a way to judge where to aim 5' from the deer's vitals from either direction and when the buck came in he counted, 1,2,3,4,5 yards,BOOM and his buck went down shortly thereafter.

Some of you may criticize me for watching the shows to begin with, there's not much more to do when you're laid up in the house with nothing productive to do but I'll tell you this, I lost any and all respect for Hank Parker that day and will watch "Soaps" before I'll watch Hank Parker 3-D again. I once thought of him as a leader that I could trust but was really hurt to see that the whole "Do what it takes to get the harvest on film" had afflicted my once idol.

After reading some of your replies to Jays post it made me realize that I too have gotten off track in putting faith in these TV hero's instead of putting it where it belongs. To our fathers, grandfather, uncle's and other elders that taught us in "Real life" what good and ethical sportsmanship was all about and disciplined us for crossing the line, like when my dad tore my hind parts up for aiming my Red Ryder BB gun at my sister when I was 5. That still hurts but ya know what? I never did it again. Tyler makes mistakes and he knows that there will be consequences when he crosses the line. I don't know what I'm trying to say y'all, I just remember a better time when Dad bought me a 5 pack of 0 Buckshot for my Ithica single barrel 20 ga. shotgun and a can of bug spray. We'd climb an old live oak without the aid of a climbing devise and instead of setting out cans of spray and hanging cotton balls soaked with Tink's69, we just prayed that we had picked the right tree that morning and when a buck as small as a cow horn fell at the crack of the gun. We knew that just as soon as we reached one another a celebration was to be had at the fallen deer followed by even more when we got home. That was hunting, the way I was taught. As kids, we were put on stand in places that we never knew existed and we had no clue where we were as we were dropped off before day in an old willys jeep, given a deer salad sandwich that grandma made, a moon pie and a 10ounce coke that you learned to open with a shotgun shell. Once out of the jeep, pa would grab us by the collar and bellow " don't leave, don't shoot no doe and DON"T let mt 2 hounds get passed you! As Pa left, we prayed that the dogs would never come our way in fear that we would break on of his rules. But, we had fun, we killed deer ( some that Pa never knew about ) and we loved every minute of it. Now here it is 35 years later, Pa and Dad are gone and we have nice 4x4 trucks with high rise dog boxes on the back and 2 different radios and high tech tracking devices so that we can just look at a screen mounted in the truck and see where every one of the 50 or so supped up, fox pen raised, hounds that we released that morning and tell you exactly where they are. However, we have learned to stay away from the highway hunting crowds that plague the Southeast giving the rest of us a bad name.

Jay, I'm glad that you started this thread. It's made me take a look back to where I came from and what it is that I need to pass down to my children and to respect the game that we hunt. I apologize for stealing your thread but I hope that you'll understand that it unlocked something that has been lost inside my heart for a long time. Lord willing, I'll pick Tyler up from school and one of us will get "lucky" this afternoon. I gotta stop by Wal-Mart and pick up a Buck Bomb first though.
God Bless !!!!!!!!!

Ray
whateverworks
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:23 pm
Location: eastern ontario

Post by whateverworks »

I saw that episode too, couldn't believe what i was watching. don't know what i was more upset over, the muzzleloader or thinking , if i had the money those guys pour all over the ground......hmmmm.
peter p
Posts: 746
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2003 10:31 pm
Location: Bolton, Ontario

Post by peter p »

The shows they air are the ones with kills, that's why they aired that one with them finding the elk.
If they never found that elk you would have never seen that show.
I wonder how many animals they loose without anybody ever knowing.
Adrian J Hare
Posts: 573
Joined: Sat Oct 26, 2002 8:56 am
Location: Ontario

Post by Adrian J Hare »

Maybe the whole point of the show was, Anyone can let their trust down and believe they can make a shot and when it does not happen proper and game is hit, never give up on tracking until you know you have been beat.

I know one thing for sure Michael Waddell can hit his target with a bow at distance, so it may have been something other then "He just chanced a shot" anything could have happened that he had not planned without knowing, that the camera did not pick up.

I would think the aired program was related more to never giving up on your game after a hit bad or not...
Ontario Hunting Lodge
http://z13.invisionfree.com/Ont_Hunting_Lodge/index.php?act=idx
whateverworks
Posts: 97
Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 6:23 pm
Location: eastern ontario

Post by whateverworks »

Don't get me wrong waddel is awesome i've never seen anyone with enthusiasm like him. and he is one of the best natural shots i've seen on t.v.. and he could start his own redneck dictionary with all the sayings he has :D
bob1961
Posts: 1835
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:58 pm
Location: White Mills, PA

Post by bob1961 »

i've seen lots of bad hits on these shows to where if you made that shot you know the wasn't gonna be found, but it is always found some how :?: ....maybe it got shot by rifle off camera to save the hunters hide, ya never know.............bob
exocet 200. STS dampers.
boo string and trigger work.
munch mount quiver mount.
125 gr slick trick magums.
2" blazers on 2117 XX75 w/ brass inserts.
Farmer
Posts: 3032
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2002 6:35 am
Location: SW..Ontario

Post by Farmer »

I have seen many of these shows and seen some really poor hits and the shooter announcing they made a good / great hit or shot on the animal . it is amazing that some of those good hits were taken in broad daylight and the recovery is in complete darkness . The trophy will also be placed as not to show the poor shot placement .

Sad to say it is now all about the money.
saxman
Posts: 5093
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 10:05 am
Location: Amelia Island, Florida
Contact:

Post by saxman »

I saw one of those "say it aint So Sax" tv shows today


What did I do :shock: :cry: :cry: :shock:
Scott
http://www.myspace.com/saxman1

Take a kid hunting
They don't remember their best day of watching TV

Excalibur Equinox
TruGlo Red/Green Dot
NGSS Absorber by NewGuy
Custom strings by BOO
Groundpounder Top Mount
ACF Member - 2011
Post Reply