Understanding Carbon Arrows!

[Pydpiper]

"Carbon composites are more for target shooting than hunting. Pure carbon shafts have altogether different properties and won't splinter into teeny tiny bits like we've all seen in the "bloody hand" picture."

I admittedly do not fully understand the difference between different composites, but here is a picture of a GTII, these are some of the fragments left in my deer when the arrow broke. I was under the impression that GTII's were carbon?

[Grizzly Adam]

Remember those first-era skinny carbons (the ones that used "outserts" instead of inserts) ... they sometimes split down the entire length ... but never into little pieces!

I killed many a deer with them .... talk about over-penetration ... they'd fly through and skip like a stone!

[Grizzly Adam]

I can't help but wonder: what did they do? Shoot the deer in the arse!

I did just that once.

Didn't intend to.

Shot a big ol' horse of a doe at about 8 feet (if that) with an arrow from a 75 lb. longbow (handmade by Byron Ferguson himself) ... she was too close ... heard the release, lunged forward and got stuck in the rear right ham.

DIed within 40 yards ... the arrow severed her femoral artery. Bled like the proverbial "stuck hog".

[Pydpiper]

Pretty unusual break there, Pyd but still relatively large pieces. By that I mean they're not teeny tiny slivers that require a magnifying glass to see. They wouldn't bother me much.

I knew it was unusual, I have broke a whole lot of carbon arrows, this was the first time one acted like this though. We weren't worried about meat damage, it was more a matter of finding the arrow head before the detailed processing, this stuff was a good trail to it.

[roly]

I have never broken a carbon arrow before

Do they normally brake clean or do they splinter like that?

[wabi]

When carbons were first offered for the Excaliburs I read the posts of how tough they are and the "they're either straight or their broke" comments. I bought 6 GoldTips to try. One of them was not straight, but had a bit of curve to it and did not shoot well. I laid it aside for my "unloading arrow".
I put the others in my quiver (after carefully testing accuracy) for hunting.

One day I got to my stand and started attaching gear to the haul up lines. When I took my hip quiver off my belt I noticed one of the arrows had broken and all that remained in my quiver was about 15 - 16" of shaft and the broadhead! The fletched end was gone! I didn't fall down or run into anything on my walk in, so why did it break? If I'd snagged it on a vine or brush, why didn't it just pull out of the soft rubber clip the quiver uses and fall out? Checked the rest of my arrows and all seemed fine.

A few weeks later I shot a doe with one of them. I was on the ground when I shot and it was late evening, so all my efforts went into recovering the doe and getting her out of the woods, tagged, and in the cooler. Next day I went back to look for my arrow and found the back 2/3 of it. It had broken and the broadhead was gone. Looked like a fairly clean break, but I looked closely for any fragments in the meat when we butchered the deer (and found nothing).

That's when I switched back to aluminum arrows!
They may bend if shot into hard objects or pulled carelessly from targets, but if you are reasonably careful they last a long time. I'm still shooting the same bunch of 2215s I made up 3 years ago. I think I have damaged 3 of the original 15 or so in that batch. One was from a hit from another arrow, one was when I put it through a deer, and one was from shooting a rotten stump to unload (the arrow went through the stump and deflected off the ground).
I also use a trick I discovered to check straightness if I make a shot I think had a risk of bending one. I use a point insert on both ends, so I can simply unscrew the point & look through the shaft like you would a telescope with it pointed at a light source. The interior of the shaft is reflective, and when I look through it looks like a "bullseye" target from the effects of the light. If it's bent the uneven "rings" being reflected are obvious!

Carbons seem to work fine from my vert bows, but for the crossbow I want something I trust, and the failure rate I had with carbons led me back to aluminum.

[vaguru]

I have shot GT II's for hundreds of shots each, without problem. I understand the originals were a thinner shaft, and that may be what some here have used and experinced problem with. I still have the dozen I shot 3D with all last season, minus 3. One got Robin Hooded by another shooter, one I missed a target with and hit rocks, and one that richocheted through limbs after passing through a deer (never found).

I use the same arrow for my shots at 3D, unless damaged. That #1 arrow was shot well over 500 times without incident, until the Robin Hood. I know some will say I'm biased, but I agree, "if it ain't broke, it's straight". Won 3 state IBO championships, 2 legs of the IBO Triple Crown, 2nd place overall IBO Triple Crown, 4th place IBO Worlds, and numerous other local and qualifier 3D xbow wins with that arrow. Wish I had it back!

I'm now shooting indoor spots. Using a new dozen of the GT II's. Have well over 3,000 shots on this set so far. Lost 2 due to "oldshiemers". But....they do shoot! The 3 I have set aside just for the FITA shoots at my club have over 300 shots each. The 5 set aside for 5 Spot have over 400 shots each, now with only 2 spares. Not a problem.

[Stash]

Just a clarification to the thread topic:

There is a difference between "carbon composite" and "aluminum/carbon composite".

Most of what we generally call "carbon" arrows are actually carbon composites - a blend of carbon fibers in a matrix of resins and glues. Firebolts, Laser IIs and such are these types. They may add wraps of additional flexible materials like Kevlar for extra strength, such as the Carbon Express Aramid KV. If you look at the websites of such companies as Carbon Express or Easton, they use the term "carbon composite" - Easton's "C2" actually stands for Carbon Composite.

Then there are the aluminum/carbon composite arrows, mostly by Easton, like the X10, ACE, ACC which are an aluminum core arrow with carbon on the outside, or the Full Metal Jacket, which is a carbon core arrow with aluminum on the outside. While they are usually used for target competition, the ACC and FMJ make a very good hunting arrows. Not too popular for hunting, though, because they are very expensive. I don't recall hearing of any A/C arrow available in a 22/64 size for crossbows.

The early "skinny" carbon arrows that splintered (Beman DIVA, Easton PC), as Grizzly Adam described, were "pultruded" - basically, carbon fibers drawn throuch a form, impregnated with the resins. The fibers were all aligned, and so were very easy to split. Point and nock outserts were then only way to hold them together.

Newer carbon arrows are made differently, with wraps of material and fibers that go in different directions for extra strength. Better construction, much safer and much less splintering. Most break cleanly with very few small splintered bits left loose.