Canned hunts

[wakes81]

I haven't seen the show, but it has done its job. Like it or not ALL types of hunters need to stick together. A united group of hunters has less chance of being picked off by the anti s, and lets face it the ultimate goal of these groups is to ban hunting all together.
After hours of driving around deer parks hoping to shoot a escapee, my spirits have now decided that i should make plans to pay for a self guided hunt of Australian exotics. All deer in Australian herds have some sort of domestic blood, and i am pretty sure they run just as fast the other way when seeing smelling or hearing humans.
I have recently put the crossbow on the shelf and gone back to rifle because my spirits didn't like the idea of following blood trails. But as far as the anti s (green groups) are concerned any hunting is good hunting.

P/S Love the hunter not the hater

[axishunter]

I don't believe anyone in this discussion endorses any of the animal right nut jobs.The only point I was trying to make is that no matter what kind of hunting you do,whether its on a 2000 acre high fence ranch or on 2,000,000 acres unfenced,we all enjoy hunting.If we don't unite,they are going to stop ALL hunting if they get their way.All hunters could debate this for years to come,but I'm just looking at the big picture.I would also like to thank MarkMarine for his service if he indeed is or was a marine.Many THANKS.

[MarkMarine]

...I would also like to thank MarkMarine for his service if he indeed is or was a marine.Many THANKS.

I am going to try to take that in the spirit it was given. I will only say this:

ONCE

ALWAYS

FOREVER

Marine!

[BigNasty]

.

[MarkMarine]

Semper Fidelis

Semper fi !!!

[jody5050]

don't you dare call that hunting!! it is all rich pricks getting what they want! canned hunts are b-s. hunting in enclosures is in my opinion the same thing. oh well it is his first animal, or it is an easy and safer way to hunt, more b-s, then again some hunt food plots with genetically superior bucks. where does it all end?? i stick with the honest, ethical way... i will "earn " my deer. hey, call me old fashion....

[Aero320]

What about guys who set up feeders to attract the deer, use trail cameras so they know when the big ones are showing up, and hunting based on the images and times from the trail cameras? How do you feel about that practice (which I confess to having done before)?

[birddog10]

What you have described would obviously be repulsive to real hunters. But just remember that what you saw was an animal rights propoganda video.

So are you suggesting it doesn't really happen and they doctored the tapes to prove a point that doesn't exist?

[Hoss]

[aaronhome]

Although many dont agree with "canned hunting" it is still classified as hunting. PITA recognizes it that way and loves to stir the pot to get hunters to speak against hunting whether you think it is or not. They will twist the words used in forums like this to show thoughts and feelings of hunters to gain ground and funding for their cause. There will always be those who will list off a whole slew of things they have heard or seen that they do not like. This saves PITA time and money from investigating for themselves. Whether you agree with one type of hunting or not you should choose your words wisely when speaking on a public forum. I have seen some of the information PITA uses and let me tell you alot of it comes from forums like this. A person may brag about a good put and take pheasant hunt then bash another form of hunting in the same breath. I personally prefer the o'natural hunting but will never publicly attack another part of the hunting industry. I don't agree with alot I have seen on how the meat gets to my table but I still eat meat. There are a lot worse industries when it comes to care and neglect towards animals. I have been around the hunting and deerfarming industry for a long time I can tell you that a lot if not nearly all negative publicity comes for staged and / or mear propaganda. Much of which is cooked up from someone telling a story that his best friends uncles second cousins brother said was true. I am not stirring the pot more than it already is. I am just stating that you should choose your words wisely when speaking on a public forum.

[Hoss]

Although many dont agree with "canned hunting" it is still classified as hunting. PITA recognizes it that way and loves to stir the pot to get hunters to speak against hunting whether you think it is or not. They will twist the words used in forums like this to show thoughts and feelings of hunters to gain ground and funding for their cause. There will always be those who will list off a whole slew of things they have heard or seen that they do not like. This saves PITA time and money from investigating for themselves. Whether you agree with one type of hunting or not you should choose your words wisely when speaking on a public forum. I have seen some of the information PITA uses and let me tell you alot of it comes from forums like this. A person may brag about a good put and take pheasant hunt then bash another form of hunting in the same breath. I personally prefer the o'natural hunting but will never publicly attack another part of the hunting industry. I don't agree with alot I have seen on how the meat gets to my table but I still eat meat. There are a lot worse industries when it comes to care and neglect towards animals. I have been around the hunting and deerfarming industry for a long time I can tell you that a lot if not nearly all negative publicity comes for staged and / or mear propaganda. Much of which is cooked up from someone telling a story that his best friends uncles second cousins brother said was true. I am not stirring the pot more than it already is. I am just stating that you should choose your words wisely when speaking on a public forum.

fair enough didnt think of it in that way......post edited..

[Limbs and Sticks]

Although many dont agree with "canned hunting" it is still classified as hunting. PITA recognizes it that way and loves to stir the pot to get hunters to speak against hunting whether you think it is or not. They will twist the words used in forums like this to show thoughts and feelings of hunters to gain ground and funding for their cause. There will always be those who will list off a whole slew of things they have heard or seen that they do not like. This saves PITA time and money from investigating for themselves. Whether you agree with one type of hunting or not you should choose your words wisely when speaking on a public forum. I have seen some of the information PITA uses and let me tell you alot of it comes from forums like this. A person may brag about a good put and take pheasant hunt then bash another form of hunting in the same breath. I personally prefer the o'natural hunting but will never publicly attack another part of the hunting industry. I don't agree with alot I have seen on how the meat gets to my table but I still eat meat. There are a lot worse industries when it comes to care and neglect towards animals. I have been around the hunting and deerfarming industry for a long time I can tell you that a lot if not nearly all negative publicity comes for staged and / or mear propaganda. Much of which is cooked up from someone telling a story that his best friends uncles second cousins brother said was true. I am not stirring the pot more than it already is. I am just stating that you should choose your words wisely when speaking on a public forum.

fair enough didnt think of it in that way......post edited..

What everybody shut up about the phoney hunt's on the tv whisper channel's, the fenced in ugly askk deer shot up with steroids, the pros that every time they let a arrow fly it's a 160 plus score, of course this deer is watched 24- 7 and may be bugged for insurance to make someone look like a real pro BS, it's up to us the real hunters to put a stop to all this, I don't watch these phoney shows, you hurt them buy not buying all that is advertise, scents, scent clothing, I'm not worried about the damn tree huggers, their broke like me, it's those phoneys with deep pockets trying to get what $$$ you have for nothing, so the next time some one watches one of these whisper channel's look at the money you can spend buying stuff that only works on tv, and no I will tell it as I see it no phoney here.


Wes

[awshucks]

I've been to a few canned hunts, as you call them 1st was Rio Bonito a few yrs ago. Had read for a few years about ACF 'Rendezvous' there, so I anted up over $2K and went.

25 square miles, perimeter fenced. I got one shot on a hog last hunt, and dry fired. 8 hunts.

Canned hog hunt was last one, took rifle, had one possible shot at a hog, but Planter was going to gig him, [he did]so I waited. That was it for 2 days worth.

Can anyone match/beat over $2k and dry fire? Didn't think so, I therefore claim Presidency of dry fire club, lol.

[DeerLady]

Dear MarkMarine,

Thank You for your kind words and thank you for your patience. I have been away from my PC for few days.

To answer your question about profit, I would say two things. First, I would rather see species thriving, although the motive behind is profit, than species lost for ever because no one cares.

You see, profit is different than greed. I am afraid the two sometimes get confused with one another. Profit is pecuniary gain resulting from the employment of capital in any transaction. It can also be described by returns, proceeds, or revenue gained by the investment of capital. You risk money, you have (hopefully and maybe) a return. According to TX A&M, an average exotic ranch operation costs $200,000 a year in expenses. When you have extreme weather like drought or flood, the amount skyrockets from there. This does not take into account the money spent to purchase the land, equipment, nor animals.

Feed (including taking care of the habitat) costs vary according to habitat and weather between $35,000 to $70,000 or more. When you invest in land and in the operation, you risk much. Ranchers do not operate through donations. Habitat and animals cost. So I see profit a way to maintain habitat and animals, and give them the very best without going bankrupted, ruining nature, and having to lay-off employees. When you sell an animal, that animal pays the feed bills for the others. I do not know of any rancher or farmer, regardless of what they raise or grow, that has become rich by being a steward of the land. Quite the opposite. Most ranchers and farmers must get a job outside their operation. Many retire and sell to developers because developers are the only ones who bother to buy land because they can make a profit.
(Also, do you blame an oncologist who saves countless lives from cancer because he makes a profit to pay the education debt and maintain his own practice and family? Does the intention to have a successful practice negatively affect the fact he saves lives?)

I guess we could do like most zoo do. They sterilize their animals -once they die, they die- and when funding is over, troubles begin; animals get sold, euthanized, or, God forbid, treated poorly. I choose instead to propagate them and make them thrive in a way I can afford to propagate them. The same do hunting ranchers. The profit is re-invested in the wellbeing of the animals. It is a question of sustainability.

Furthermore, money adds value to the animals. When you value something, you take good care of it.

I have trouble understanding the incompatibility you see is considering clients hunters. A client is a person who receives a product or a service. A hunter is a person who searches an animal to harvest it. A hunter who is allowed to hunt on personal property and contributes monetarily to the operation and receives services, such as hunting guide, meals, and lodging is a client.

If you hunted within high fences you would know that the same experience in weaponry and tracking is intact in both hunters and landowners. To the experience of hunting, landowners add the experience of doctoring, feeding, and managing natural resources.

I agree 100% with you. Hunting is 100% success because the greatest part of hunting is looking for your animal and tracking it. Shooting is just a tool to get the animal. The real hunting thrill is the search – the hunt. In high fences hunting operations you are searching for that animal only – that trophy blackbuck, Red deer, etc., or that management buck or doe for meat. All the other animals or the younger ones are off limits. You may see them, but you may not shoot them. You might have to come back over and over to the same high fence operation to find the animal you have in mind.

One more thought. High fences keep human encroachment away from the animals. High fences save habitat from human encroachment. Traditional livestock do not bother wildlife a bit, nor change wildlife behavior. Most of the time, livestock is kept separated by wildlife, and often for the very reason that wildlife is in a brush, covered habitat, while livestock is on improved pastures. Many ranchers like myself raise exotics to pay for the gap left behind by traditional agriculture. As you can read about anywhere, agriculture many times does not pay the bills. To keep feeding the American people so that they can conduct their lives and pursue their own happiness, ranchers and farmers diversify, including raising exotics and offering hunts.

Also, I would like to share this experience with you. Once I had someone who wanted to buy some deer from me because, he said, he wanted deer that he was able to enjoy seeing. No hunting. He thought that being a deer breeding operation my deer were more gentle and used to humans. I told him that that was not the case. As soon as the deer would have been released in his property, which has cover, they would have disappeared and he would have had a very hard time to find them. He did not believe me. But he called me after the delivery of the deer complaining that the deer were wild and he could not see them. Wildlife is wildlife. It is and remains wild. High fences and feed do not change a thing. How many thousands of years did it take to the dog to become domestic?

I am proud of what we do, but I do also understand and respect that hunting within high fences is not for everyone. We should be allowed to operate and to pursue our own efforts in taking care of the piece nature under our care. It is also the responsibility of the hunter to choose a respectable high fence operation. And if one does his or her homework, and check references, hunters will find many operations to choose from and will have the hunt of their lifetime, regardless of how many times they need to go back to get the animal. Furthermore, they will be participating in conservation of the species.

Thank You for the chat. I have truly enjoyed it.

[MarkMarine]

Deer Lady,

Once more, my esteem to a well written rebuttal. The logic you set forth is a good reflection upon not only the point you wished to make, but an illuminating parallel to the other exotic establishments that have heretofore been silent within this venue. With the exception, perhaps, of the analogous oncologist (as Hippocrates surely rolled over in his grave at the comparison lol), I can empathize with your fiscal position.

However, reading what you have written leads me to picture such an exotic operation as little more than that of an agricultural enterprise. Perhaps a better comparison (in lieu of the oncology) would have been to cite such industry. The reason I say this is because if I transposed "cattle" for "exotics" in your spiel, then Hank (and others) would have no issue as it is clearly a ranching enterprise.

But, that would be erroneous because cattle are domestic livestock - and have been since Christ was a Corporal...and you made an illustrative example of denoting your exotics as "wild". Yet, as someone once alluded to, "Just because I raise buffalo and shoot them does not make me a Buffalo Hunter." (or words to that effect).

Nonetheless, I wish you and your clients well. You, being a business person, would not produce a product if there were no market for it. Sadly, it seems your market base is ever expanding.

I enjoyed the chat as well...in the words of my people, "Donadagvi".