Please support this, next time it might be YOU

[one shot scott]

Something like this has got to hurt the tourism in that area.

I can sympathize with the guy, and I dont think he should be on the hook for the costs. It appears that he didnt set out to test the boundries. Just looking to enjoy the great outdoors and found himself in trouble. I think there are times when someone goes to far and need to compensate for his poor judgement but i dont think this is an example.

& Where do you draw the line? Why are the outdoor activities targeted more? a jay walker gets hit by a car. Is he on the hook? a child plays with a lighter and sets the house ablaze, is the parents going to pay? We pay a CRAP load of taxes to support emergency services as it is, and they are paid well to do the job that they have. Next thing you know, the hostipitals going to start charging us because it was a "preventable accident"

[wheelie]

[one shot scott]

In most instances if You hit a pedestrian while in your car your on the hook no matter what his was doing

Your talking insurance. That's a different can of worms and nothing to with a govt offered service.

If your town is promoting tourism and reaping the benifits of gaining tax money from the purchases that he makes, you better have the resources to save that tourist. Same goes for a local, taxes fund the emergency services.

[Ont_Excal]

If your town is promoting tourism and reaping the benifits of gaining tax money from the purchases that he makes, you better have the resources to save that tourist.

Simple solution then is to ban all icefishing!

[Tom]

If your town is promoting tourism and reaping the benifits of gaining tax money from the purchases that he makes, you better have the resources to save that tourist.

Simple solution then is to ban all icefishing!

The problem is that Port Perry (the little comunity at the south end of Lake Scugog) fought to get ice fishing back years ago to help with winter tourism. It was closed for many years as part of the Kawarthas, but it is the only lake in the Kawarthas that allow a season in the winter for Walleye because Port Perry fought to get it back.

Now all the conservation authority does is say the ice is unsafe and they feel that they have no responsibility for the people on the ice, but the town is really happy to take the money from toursim. Remember that the lake is very large, it has a very large island at the south end. To travel from one end of the lake to the other with a 16' 80 hp motor would take you over a hour. There are springs in many different areas and the ice thickness varies greatly. Some areas (always the same areas) could have 2 - 4 inches while the rest of the lake will have over 12 inches of solid ice. People learn to stay away from the areas of the springs. The Rest of the ice is very safe to go fishing on.

Now, what about the snowmobillers or ATVers that use the ice to converge on the little town for a rest or something to eat. Remember that this town advertises winter activities to attract new visitors. These new people will have very little knowledge of the differences of ice thickness there. There are many that go through each year, should they be charged for a rescue for unseen dangers, they will be now

About comments about money and it looks like he has some ..... it does not really matter if he does or not ......But he is a retired teacher and we know that they never got paid very much money) the fact is that he is a resident of Durham Region and the region pays most of the Emergency Response systems ...... therefore his regional taxes should cover most of the resuce.

[sumner4991]

The guy never says anything about not having the money.

The amount of money you have at retirement depends a lot more on how much you spend, not how much you made.

We had to pay for the fire department to come out once for a brush fire that got away from us . . . no complaints, we started the fire and was glad to see the truck.

I think the bill was steep on this one, but, it's also fair to have the guy pay something.

[Ont_Excal]

But he is a retired teacher and we know that they never got paid very much money) the fact is that he is a resident of Durham Region and the region pays most of the Emergency Response systems ...... therefore his regional taxes should cover most of the resuce.

As a retired school principal, I'm sure he did very well with pension and benefits.
If he's so poor, why don't you and his friends have a fundraiser to offset the cost.
The municipality is not backing down and I don't blame them.

I've looked at a map of the lake in question and the location where he was rescued. I've been on waters a lot bigger, deeper and not manmade.
He walked out from a boat launch and stayed out till after dark in the fog.
He's lucky his cell phone worked!

Here's more of the story.

SCUGOG -- An Oshawa man says Scugog's decision to bill him nearly $5,400 after firefighters pulled him from Lake Scugog sets a worrisome precedent that could have deadly consequences.

An avid angler with more than 30 years' experience fishing on Lake Scugog, Neil Robbescheuten trekked his way out to a patch of ice just north of Scugog Island on the afternoon of Jan. 13 in hopes of catching a few fish.

Instead, he landed himself a bill for $5,392.78 from the Scugog Fire Department after he became disoriented on the ice after a thick fog rolled in and called for help after getting stuck in mud while trying to make it ashore.

"The precedent this sets is huge," said Mr. Robbescheuten, who received the bill Jan. 23. "Scugog council needs funding, they have fiscal challenges, but to try and recoup money from 911 services is dead wrong."

The Oshawa angler says he knows of no other municipalities that charge for rescues requested through 911 calls and says that Scugog's decision to bill for services is "a huge change" in 911 protocol that could have grave consequences.

Specifically, he's concerned that someone needing help may not call 911, worried about the cost of emergency services, or they may waste precious minutes while they consider whether they can afford the help of first responders.

"What happens to a poor person or a young person who hesitates to call or they don't want to call 911 because of their fear of billing?" asked Mr. Robbescheuten, 62. "The ramifications of this could be huge."

For years, Scugog councillors have grumbled about the costs and dangers associated with rescuing boaters, anglers and snowmobile enthusiasts from the local lake.

The Township, however, has been handcuffed by provincial privacy laws which prohibit the municipality from using personal information -- such as names and addresses -- garnered from a police report for billing purposes.

Last fall, Scugog Fire Chief Richard Miller told councillors he would ask his firefighters to try to collect personal information from anyone rescued, specifically so that Scugog could try to recoup some of its costs.

"When you're on the lake and you call 911 and we come and rescue you, you should expect a bill for fees and services as council has directed the fire department (to send)," said Chief Miller on Monday.

Mr. Robbescheuten "was in a position where he recognized he shouldn't be in" and was charged accordingly under Scugog's bylaws, said the fire chief.

As for the Oshawa man's assertions that Scugog is changing 911 protocols, Chief Miller stressed: "He's giving (the public) that perception, not us."

Mr. Robbescheuten, however, contends that he did nothing wrong on Jan. 13.

It was a unseasonably mild day and he wandered about 130 yards from the northern tip of Scugog Island for his fourth trip of the 2013 ice-fishing season. At one point, the former Durham school principal called his wife and three friends to remark about the wonderful weather as he fished on ice about five inches thick.

"It was a perfect day," said Mr. Robbescheuten, who was wearing a survival suit that afternoon.

As twilight neared, a thick fog began to roll into the area, covering the shoreline and the lake. Mr. Robbescheuten decided to give the fog some time to dissipate, but finally chose to try to make his way ashore around 7 p.m.

"It was a blanket of fog like I've never experienced before," said Mr. Robbescheuten, who could only see about four feet ahead with his Coleman lantern. "I had no idea where I was going, the fog was so dense."

Pulling a sleigh with all his ice-fishing gear, he realized he was wandering off-course but thought his luck changed when he spotted some weeds and bullrushes.

As he walked towards a marshy area just west of the Crozier Lane boat launch, where he left his truck, Mr. Robbescheuten suddenly went through the ice -- first his left leg, then his right.

He didn't sink very deep, but he did end up knee-deep in mud, his lantern extinguished by an unexpected drop into water.

Mr. Robbescheuten tried his best to get out of the mud, pulling on bullrushes and rolling on the ice, but couldn't budge his boots from Lake Scugog's mucky bottom.

"I thought I had a bear trap on my feet. I thought those were my last moments there," he said, noting he sprained a ligament in one of his legs from all the attempts to get out of the mud.

Finally acknowledging his predicament, Mr. Robbescheuten called two of his friends for help but realized they'd probably end up stuck like him. Reluctantly, he called 911.

"I was not in grave danger, I just wanted someone to show me the direction back to shore so I could get back to my truck," said Mr. Robbescheuten.

A 911 operator stayed on the line with Mr. Robbescheuten for more than 20 minutes as Scugog firefighters made their way to him. He was then helped from the mud and dragged to shore in a zodiac boat.

"And now all of a sudden I'm sent a bill for $5,400 is unbelievable, it's unbelievable," said Mr. Robbescheuten, who stressed he has no intentions of paying the invoice.

"I cannot pay this bill. I will not pay it on principle," he said.

Some Durham fire departments charge for rescues, others don't.

DURHAM -- It appears that the Scugog Fire Department is the only fire service in Durham that actively tries to recoup its costs from ice and water rescues.
There is no set fee for a rescue in Oshawa's fees and services bylaw and in Whitby there are no charges, although the Whitby fire service only does certain types of rescues. In certain cases, the Oshawa fire department's technical team is called in to assist Whitby firefighters.

Clarington's fire department does not charge for ice and water rescues. Fire officials there say they do not get many rescue calls, but if that number increases they might have to consider a fee.

Pickering does not charge for rescues.

In Ajax, the Town has the option of recovering costs through its fee bylaw. That's a decision that would be made if there was a huge cost to the municipality or after repetitive incidents.

In north Durham, Uxbridge has sent residents invoices for fire calls, but fire officials say they have never issued an invoice for a rescue. However, the Township does have that option if the need arises. That's the same scenario in Brock, where the fire department has the option of seeking reimbursement under the municipality's bylaws.

[rayman]

Couple of things:

Aren't emergency responce people just sitting at the shop waiting for something to happen anyway? Doesn't seem like it would cost $5,400 extra for them to send a crew out to save the man.

We had to pay for the fire department to come out once for a brush fire that got away from us . . . no complaints, we started the fire and was glad to see the truck.

I wonder if some of these crazy invoices aren't to pay for a lot of waist. For example, I do a lot of contract burning and did a burn today. I had a Forestry crew on site to help, which will cost a couple hundred. Great, worth it! Of course people call to report a wildfire when they see the smoke, so two fire engines and another Forestry crew came screaming out to see what was going on. I had a burn permit, which is very specific so there was no question as to the location and what was going on. They could have called me, or the Forestry crew that was on site, to see if everything was OK, like we would not have radioed if it wasn't. So I'm guessing that the costs associated with all that false responce will be passed on to the next "emergency responce."

[one shot scott]

When you think about it, your going to require the assistance of an emergency response crew (ambulance, fire) what? Maybe 5 times in a lifetime at most? This is a service that we have been paying into over the course of our lifetime and in the odd chance that you need to call on help they are going to charge you for their time? It just sounds like another tax. Do they think they can get away with it because you got out alive and are greatful and happy to pay? Or is it to cover poor spending, blown budgets and high salaries

[taz3]

I payed $175 for an ambulance ride, 5 miles to save my life 15 years ago, from a 911 call.

[one shot scott]

Please Correct me if I'm wrong taz. But you gladly paid it? Even though you paid for it many times over previously?

There should be a frequent flyer fee perhaps, along the lines of "mr shot Scott, this is the 5th time this month that you've fallen out of your ground blind and needed the services of our lovely ambulance attendant mrs Jennifer love Hewitt, here is your bill for 2000.00"



Out of them all (if any) I think it should be the police dept who should be charging the repeat offenders. Some cops know the frequents by name. Same with the ambulance driver called to clean up drunk mr Scott yet again this week. But not the once in a lifetime emergency call maker.

[taz3]

Please Correct me if I'm wrong taz. But you gladly paid it? Even though you paid for it many times over previously?

There should be a frequent flyer fee perhaps, alone the lines of "mr shot Scott, this is the 5th time this month that you've fallen out of your ground blind and needed the services of our lovely ambulance attendant mrs Jennifer love Hewitt, here is your bill for 2000.00"



Out of them all I think it should be the police dept who should be charging the repeat offenders. Some cops know the frequents by name. Same with the ambulance driver called to clean up drunk mr Scott yet again this week. But not the once in a lifetime emergency call maker.

Hey, I never realized that, every time I road in the back of a cop car as kid and it was always a false alarm, I never paid for any of them!

I would have given anything for my ride to the hospital, I had a fractured vertebra, 6 fractured ribs and a collapsed lung, I couldn't even, move so my answer would be bias!

[one shot scott]

Why as a kid are you riding in a back of a cruiser? and as a false alarm? An officer looking after a kid would be a worthy community service.

Thats nothing like the wife beater, cops called for the 3rd time this week


anyways.. what im trying to get at is that they (fire, ambulance) almost play on the human emotion that you WILL pay beacause you made it out alive.

[taz3]

Why as a kid are you riding in a back of a cruiser? and as a false alarm?

what im trying to get at is that they almost play on the human emotion that you WILL pay beacause you made it out alive.

I was smart enough to keep my nose clean, but the company I was in, didn't always do the same!

Ya, a tire company used the same emotional play on the general public in a sales pitch. In all honesty more public education would also be beneficial, but that will just lead to more billing to us! We just can't win!

[sumner4991]

There was a town in TN that was only putting out the fire if the taxes were paid . . .they let a house burn to the ground while they watched and made sure it didn't spread to the other tax paying homes . . .that's one way to get the tax paid and on time, I suppose . . .

http://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/local/Fi ... 52668.html