Excalibur Matrix Mega 405 .. My findings / thoughts so far

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styks
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Excalibur Matrix Mega 405 .. My findings / thoughts so far

Post by styks »

Hi again all.

Well I've had my M405 for a few weeks now and thought I'd share my thoughts.

As I explained in my hello thread I've had to switch from trad & compound due to injury.
My first crossbow was the TP GT Flex, purchased to shoot NFAS field and for that it is great. We can't use cocking aids and I can handle 180lbs ok by hand.
Having been bitten by the crossbow bug bigtime, something I never thought would happen being mainly a trad guy, I'm really enjoying shooting without pain plus it's so much fun! :)
Soon after I decided I wanted something with more oomph for long distance target without having to point at the moon, enter the Matrix 405.

My first impressions were good but several things since have made me question my decission a little. Nothing really bad but stuff I've had to and are going to address.

Firstly the serving wear was awful to start with, a great flat appeared where serving contacts rail. I was turning frequently due to string stretch and lubing the rail freqently but even so it mashed it in short order.
In comparison the GT Flex is still on it's original string after many many shots.
While investigating the issue I noted there is much more down pressure on the Matrix plus the rail due to the camo coating felt rough under the nail when the GT Flex rail is like glass.
Ok easy enough to sort so I took some Brasso metal polish, like your autosol I guess, and went to work carefully. It's much smoother/slicker now, secondly I bought some Venom serving lube and rail lube, the second string has surpassed the first by a factor of 3 and still going well, I expect another 100 bolts before It'll need reserving. .... So that has sorted that and I can now live with the slightly higher wear considering the higher down pressure and holding weight of this beast.
I would advise new owners to do the same. ... No doubt it would wear smooth in time, many strings on!

The grip size was a little narrow for me so I've wrapped tightly with 1.5mm Dyneema yaght line and it fills my hand much better, that is of course personal taste.

I'm struggling to get the consistant accuracy I'm getting from the GT Flex, there are a couple reasons for that IMO.

Number one and the most annoying is the trigger, it's not as good as I originally thought and hasn't smoothed out like the Flex did. OK it's holding far more weight, 290 compared to the Flex's 180.

I'm going to have to buy a Trigger Tech unit I feel.
I was contemplating the target 1.5lbs unit but if I ever get over your side to hunt that's going to be downright scary not to mention potentially dangerous! It'd be hairy enough target shooting this wee beastie with a 1.5lb trigger break! :shock:

So it's the Hunter 2.5 I think. My only worry is that it won't be light enough for me on the M405, it may go over the 2.5 as it's designed for both the M380 and the M405. ........... I've asked the question but the reply just said "around the 2.5 mark but breaks cleanly which is more important" ......
I agree a clean break is essential for good accuracy but I'd hate it if it turned out to be 3.5lbs as there is potential for pulling off target if my trigger technique is not bang on. Living in the UK it's not so simple to return / exchange. ............ No doubt an improvment over the stock trigger but I want to get it right first time if poss, so advice from you guys on that would be much appreciated.

Secondly, and this is not a knock at the bow or Excalibur because lets face it it is a hunting bow not a target bow, but I feel this M405 is the limit if not a bridge too far. IMHO ................
At 30 yards it would down a bleedin BULL ELEPHANT and I guess that's all you want as hunters, (Not an elephant before someone gets the wrong idea and shouts at me :) and yes I could hit the kill zone 90% of the time @ 30 - 50 yards

There is so much energy stored in this thing it makes it more of a challange to shoot accurately (especially with that trigger) that's why I think it's surely reached the limit now? No opposing parallel limbs to help cancel/reduce forces like compounds, it has to go in to the bolt and the rest we feel in the bow, etc etc …....... It's a good job I like a challange, it's not as easy to shoot or quite as enjoyable as my GT Flex, (Exhilarating and fun are the words I'd use) may be the Trigger Tech unit will change things some, I hope so.

Excalibur build quality is very good, I'd like to see stainless fixings but of coarse cost would increase. Something I'll change over time.
I'm still glad I didn't go for a compound, I'd forgotten how obsessed I can get with having things bang on, I'd be forever checking timing, cams, etc etc! …......... That's the old Engineer in me. :lol:

Anyhow just a few thoughts observations, not a review cus I'm not experienced enough with Xbow's and nowt other than my Flex to compare with, plus we can't hunt here so it would not be fair.

When I eventually get the Trigger Tech unit I'll report back.

As before, any advice, tips, comments greatfully received. …........

Styks/
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Boo
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Re: Excalibur Matrix Mega 405 .. My findings / thoughts so f

Post by Boo »

Hey Styks! What is the configuration of your arrows? Disregard the flat spots on the serving. All that poundage on the latches translates into a phenomenal crushing contact that will only flatten the outer circumference of the serving material.
I will not buy a crossbow with a camoed rail for the exact reasons you observe. Function first! If I somehow ended up with a camoed rail I would polish the deck with 2000 grit wet sandpaper backed with a hard rubber sanding block. Donno how much to take off but I would follow up with a fine polishing compound.
The only other comment I'll make at this moment is that, as you noted, the 405 is a monster masher and I think the challenge you've taken on is doable but it's much akin to making a muscle car into an articulate BMW.
I look forward to watching your bow evolve!
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styks
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Re: Excalibur Matrix Mega 405 .. My findings / thoughts so f

Post by styks »

Hi Boo, thanks for your input.

At the moment I'm using the Diablo bolts that came with it, I've refletched with PlastiFlex Max PM 23's to reduce drag so I can get a little more range, they group as well as the 2" high profile vanes that they came with. Being a slightly lighter vane the FOC is only a little lower than standard as I'm using 125gr points. Total weight 380gr ..... FOC 16.9 %

Getting decent shafts here is not straight forward. I use GP Laser ii shafts, which I can get easily, on my Gt Flex but I feel they would be a bit soft in the spine for the M405.
This was a question I was going to ask. I can get GP Laser iv made up bolts at 20" but not the bare shafts. Both EX. Diablo and the Laser iv's made up cost a fortune here, £40 ($69) for 6.
Can you recommend some shafts or a configuration that may be better than the Diablo's and my config? I'd like to keep em around 380gr.... I can get Easton, Carbon Express, Gold Tip and Black Eagle but not the Executioners. What spine would I need, the stiffest possible I guess ??
Other problem is if the OD/ID is not the same as the GP Laser ii's I can't get flat nocks to fit without importing them, having said that I would do it if i can achieve superior bolt flight.

Yes the rail, I had contemplated removing the camo completely and going down to bare metal but noticed there was quite deep longitudinal machining lines no doubt to help hold the coating, I was concerned about removing to much, mind you it would reduce down pressure fractionally which may be a good thing ??

The serving flats were not really worring me too much, but it fluffed up prety quick. .... I have approached an archery shop here to see if they will make me some strings up with possibly a better serving material and a good pre-stretch. They normally have their jig set at 300lbs but might be able to get a tad more from the hydraulic system. Plus they will be much cheaper, the only stockists here again charge a fortune for the stock strings!

Yes turning a muscle car into a articulate BMW as you put it, the exact reason I started questioning my decission! .......... I'll stick with it and do the best I can.
I was looking for max velocity without fancy alloy wheels, :) I was thinking a Scorpyd Velocity but support in the UK is virtually nill, it would have to go back to US if any faults developed so I thought I best keep it simple.
Cheers!

Hi Swamp Donky ............. When I get it bought and fitted I'll certainly feedback my thoughts. Cheers!
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Re: Excalibur Matrix Mega 405 .. My findings / thoughts so f

Post by Hi5 »

I just changed over the stock trigger to a 2&1/2 pound single stage version on my 405. Haven't fired it yet, though.

The instructions caution you about fully seating the allen wrench into the 4 screws which hold the sight/bolt hold down unit. Believe them. I reamed out 3 of the allen head screw heads. If I were doing this again, I'd use a screw driver bit instead of an allen wrench. I'd give the bit a good rap into place--to be sure it was seated fully, AND to loosen the thread lock that has been applied. I think my allen screws got a super extra dose of thread lock when they were installed at the factory, because they sure didn't want to break loose.

I temporarily installed the allen head screws that came with the Trigger Tech screws, and I'll leave them in till after I test the trigger. If I keep the trigger, I'll remove and throw out the allen heads and replace them with Torx heads, and secure with thread lock.

Be warned, it's not a nice job to remove allen head screws after the socket has reamed out.

I don't fault anyone for my misadventure. The screws were meant to be permanent when installed by the factory. The allen wrench supplied by Trigger Tech didn't fail, the steel in the screws wasn't up to the stress applied. It was likely a lot more than was expected.
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styks
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Re: Excalibur Matrix Mega 405 .. My findings / thoughts so f

Post by styks »

Hi5 ........... Ha yep been there already!
I had one that nearly went south on me but luckily I noticed and guessed that the allen head screws being so shallow would cause me a problem so I took great care.
The reason I removed the scope rail / gaurdian DFI was because when I accidentally dry fired due to my head being somewhere else (never done that before :oops: ) I noticed the POI had changed and I wanted to investigate the problem. Damn good job it had this DFI or my limbs would've gone bye bye!

They certainly wanted them to stay put, mine also were well loctited in.
I will also replace these at some point, I'm even tempted to re-tap for a larger stainless cap head screw. Won't look pretty but I'm an over engineering type of guy.
If you look at the limb straps, same thing there. I went to check tightness after lots of shots and one wanted to start rounding when I looked at it !! Not high tensile machine screws for sure! These and the straps will be replaced with stainless also. ........... These type of engineering cuts annoy the hell out of me. :evil:

Please report your findings with the Trigger Tech unit, I'd love to know what it feels like before I buy mine.
Cheers!
Hester0305
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Re: Excalibur Matrix Mega 405 .. My findings / thoughts so f

Post by Hester0305 »

Styks congrats on your beast, I guess its hard to compare the GT Flex and the Matrix 405 because of the poundage difference and extra cocking effort it takes to cock the 405. The Matrix 330 or a 355 will be of more of a comparison to the GT Flex these models are a pleasure to shoot and are very easy on servings. If you can get Black Eagles where you're at the Zombies may be your best choice because they're real stiff. The Executioners that I shoot are tack drivers with a 125 gr. head. The TT triggers are great for the Excals and a hugh improvement over the Matrix triggers this would be a very good investment for long range shooting. Good luck with your 405 and welcome to the forum
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Hi5
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Re: Excalibur Matrix Mega 405 .. My findings / thoughts so f

Post by Hi5 »

Styks

I'm happy that you avoided the allen head reaming experience that I brought onto myself.

I haven't range tested the Trigger Tech trigger yet. However, this evening I cautiously cocked the bow a couple of times and released the string back onto the crankeroo by firing. The trigger has a nice, short, and clean break. I like it. I was a bit alarmed when I tested the trigger after it was installed and without the bow being cocked. When the trigger isn't under normal string pressure it alters the trigger firing characteristics dramatically.

NOTE!! Anyone reading this, you must not have slack in your crankeroo lines or there will be something broken by this exercise.....crankeroo lines, bowstring, fingers, or something else. If you aren't familiar with the operation of your crankeroo and your bow, don't do it! Wait till you get to the range and fire arrows instead.
"Gun Control Laws"--trying to nag criminals into submission.
paulaboutform
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Re: Excalibur Matrix Mega 405 .. My findings / thoughts so f

Post by paulaboutform »

I shoot an M380 and love the two stage 1.5lbs TT target trigger. I do some long range shooting (out to 100 meters) and certainly plan to hunt with this bow come fall. It doesn't feel like a hair trigger at all. I'm guessing that with the 405 you would have about a 2lbs trigger. At 100 meters I'm getting some ridiculously tight groups that I'm sure the 405 will easily duplicate. I've had great results with the following setup which is very similar to some of the other members here that are like resident snipers (hello tremps and nog :wink: ).

Level
tt 1.5 lbs 2 stage target trigger
boo string
limb tip tamers
Leupold VX-R 3-9X40 ballistic firedot reticle
18" BE Zombies
plastic flat nocks
2" blazer veins fletched with E-Z Bolt Fletcher (extreme R helical)
1" reflective wrap in front of veins
92gr brass inserts
100gr points

I'd have to check but if memory serves me correctly this setup runs about 385gr. Good luck and keep us updated.
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TriggerTech
Posts: 54
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Re: Excalibur Matrix Mega 405 .. My findings / thoughts so f

Post by TriggerTech »

styks wrote:Hi again all.

Well I've had my M405 for a few weeks now and thought I'd share my thoughts.

As I explained in my hello thread I've had to switch from trad & compound due to injury.
My first crossbow was the TP GT Flex, purchased to shoot NFAS field and for that it is great. We can't use cocking aids and I can handle 180lbs ok by hand.
Having been bitten by the crossbow bug bigtime, something I never thought would happen being mainly a trad guy, I'm really enjoying shooting without pain plus it's so much fun! :)
Soon after I decided I wanted something with more oomph for long distance target without having to point at the moon, enter the Matrix 405.

My first impressions were good but several things since have made me question my decission a little. Nothing really bad but stuff I've had to and are going to address.

Firstly the serving wear was awful to start with, a great flat appeared where serving contacts rail. I was turning frequently due to string stretch and lubing the rail freqently but even so it mashed it in short order.
In comparison the GT Flex is still on it's original string after many many shots.
While investigating the issue I noted there is much more down pressure on the Matrix plus the rail due to the camo coating felt rough under the nail when the GT Flex rail is like glass.
Ok easy enough to sort so I took some Brasso metal polish, like your autosol I guess, and went to work carefully. It's much smoother/slicker now, secondly I bought some Venom serving lube and rail lube, the second string has surpassed the first by a factor of 3 and still going well, I expect another 100 bolts before It'll need reserving. .... So that has sorted that and I can now live with the slightly higher wear considering the higher down pressure and holding weight of this beast.
I would advise new owners to do the same. ... No doubt it would wear smooth in time, many strings on!

The grip size was a little narrow for me so I've wrapped tightly with 1.5mm Dyneema yaght line and it fills my hand much better, that is of course personal taste.

I'm struggling to get the consistant accuracy I'm getting from the GT Flex, there are a couple reasons for that IMO.

Number one and the most annoying is the trigger, it's not as good as I originally thought and hasn't smoothed out like the Flex did. OK it's holding far more weight, 290 compared to the Flex's 180.

I'm going to have to buy a Trigger Tech unit I feel.
I was contemplating the target 1.5lbs unit but if I ever get over your side to hunt that's going to be downright scary not to mention potentially dangerous! It'd be hairy enough target shooting this wee beastie with a 1.5lb trigger break! :shock:

So it's the Hunter 2.5 I think. My only worry is that it won't be light enough for me on the M405, it may go over the 2.5 as it's designed for both the M380 and the M405. ........... I've asked the question but the reply just said "around the 2.5 mark but breaks cleanly which is more important" ......
I agree a clean break is essential for good accuracy but I'd hate it if it turned out to be 3.5lbs as there is potential for pulling off target if my trigger technique is not bang on. Living in the UK it's not so simple to return / exchange. ............ No doubt an improvment over the stock trigger but I want to get it right first time if poss, so advice from you guys on that would be much appreciated.

Secondly, and this is not a knock at the bow or Excalibur because lets face it it is a hunting bow not a target bow, but I feel this M405 is the limit if not a bridge too far. IMHO ................
At 30 yards it would down a bleedin BULL ELEPHANT and I guess that's all you want as hunters, (Not an elephant before someone gets the wrong idea and shouts at me :) and yes I could hit the kill zone 90% of the time @ 30 - 50 yards

There is so much energy stored in this thing it makes it more of a challange to shoot accurately (especially with that trigger) that's why I think it's surely reached the limit now? No opposing parallel limbs to help cancel/reduce forces like compounds, it has to go in to the bolt and the rest we feel in the bow, etc etc …....... It's a good job I like a challange, it's not as easy to shoot or quite as enjoyable as my GT Flex, (Exhilarating and fun are the words I'd use) may be the Trigger Tech unit will change things some, I hope so.

Excalibur build quality is very good, I'd like to see stainless fixings but of coarse cost would increase. Something I'll change over time.
I'm still glad I didn't go for a compound, I'd forgotten how obsessed I can get with having things bang on, I'd be forever checking timing, cams, etc etc! …......... That's the old Engineer in me. :lol:

Anyhow just a few thoughts observations, not a review cus I'm not experienced enough with Xbow's and nowt other than my Flex to compare with, plus we can't hunt here so it would not be fair.

When I eventually get the Trigger Tech unit I'll report back.

As before, any advice, tips, comments greatfully received. …........

Styks/

Hi,

The Matrix Hunter 2.5 will be just a hair over 2.5lbs on the 405. There is not an immense amount of draw weight difference between the 380 and the 405, so the effect on the trigger is very slight.

Cheers,

TT
styks
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:52 pm

Re: Excalibur Matrix Mega 405 .. My findings / thoughts so f

Post by styks »

paulaboutform wrote:I shoot an M380 and love the two stage 1.5lbs TT target trigger. I do some long range shooting (out to 100 meters) and certainly plan to hunt with this bow come fall. It doesn't feel like a hair trigger at all. I'm guessing that with the 405 you would have about a 2lbs trigger. At 100 meters I'm getting some ridiculously tight groups that I'm sure the 405 will easily duplicate. I've had great results with the following setup which is very similar to some of the other members here that are like resident snipers (hello tremps and nog :wink: ).

Level
tt 1.5 lbs 2 stage target trigger
boo string
limb tip tamers
Leupold VX-R 3-9X40 ballistic firedot reticle
18" BE Zombies
plastic flat nocks
2" blazer veins fletched with E-Z Bolt Fletcher (extreme R helical)
1" reflective wrap in front of veins
92gr brass inserts
100gr points

I'd have to check but if memory serves me correctly this setup runs about 385gr. Good luck and keep us updated.
Thank you you've helped my decision. If the target unit will be about 2lbs in the 405 that is perfect or even just below great. 95% of my shooting will be target and if I ever do any hunting outside the UK it will more than likely be from a blind.
Anyhow I've ordered the Matrix target unit, cheers!

Regarding the BE Zombies, there's no one here stocking those so even if I import I'm not going to get bits here. There's one place that stocks GP Laser ii and inserts/nocks to fit but I'm sure the ID of the Zombies will less if they're stiff in the spine, I'll check the BE site to be sure. ........ Just hopeless here for Xbow bolts, little call for them in the UK presently.
I can get practically any shaft for vertical compound here but I'm thinking nothing I can get will be spined high enough.
SEW wrote:Zombie shafts will likely serve you best, due to stiffness. The TT dual stage #2.5 is likely the best hunting choice for most of us, while the 1.5 SS likely would be best for tgt. I have a Danny Miller Flemish string with 200-300 shots on it(Camo M380) and is doing well so far. Awaiting Boo string. I use serving lub and Rail Snot rail lub. I debated between 380 and 405 as hunting is why I have the xbow.
PS I lived in Merton, Oxon (OX6ONB) for 4 yrs(75-79) while stationed at RAF Upper Heyford. Where do you live?
Hi SEW, As above, getting Xbow shafts here is very difficult, no one stocks BE Zombies so I'd have to import.
I live a good way from Oxon, my home range is North Wales, great scenery here around Snowdonia, some great walks too!
Hester0305 wrote:Styks congrats on your beast, I guess its hard to compare the GT Flex and the Matrix 405 because of the poundage difference and extra cocking effort it takes to cock the 405. The Matrix 330 or a 355 will be of more of a comparison to the GT Flex these models are a pleasure to shoot and are very easy on servings. If you can get Black Eagles where you're at the Zombies may be your best choice because they're real stiff. The Executioners that I shoot are tack drivers with a 125 gr. head. The TT triggers are great for the Excals and a hugh improvement over the Matrix triggers this would be a very good investment for long range shooting. Good luck with your 405 and welcome to the forum
The GT Flex is the only other Xbow I've shot, I agree it is not a fair comparison at all really. The extra draw weight is no issue for me, I can cock it for hours now my muscles have got used to the idea!

One funny thing though, after a days session cocking the 405 I went out the following day with the Gt Flex and almost pulled the string through the back of the breach !!! :lol:
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