Headshots?

[sumner4991]

When it comes to "trick" shots, it is a matter of skill level. What's simply a routine shot to the head for a expert rifleman/bowman is a trick shot to the novice hunter.

I would never suggest to anyone to take a motorcycle and jump 50 yards in the air. Yet, I see folks doing it routinely on TV. I think it's insane, some of the "tricks" they do. However, it's a routine jump for those guys.

I'm just saying a head shot is not as easy as a heart shot. Plus, there is a lot more room for error when taking a heart shot. A head shot can be done ethically. It's up to the individual to determine what's ethical according to their skill level.

I can't imagine an ethical shot to the head with a bow. But, then again, I can't make a 50 yard jump with a motorcycle either.

By the way . . .there are more deer than you care to count out there right now without a leg. Those were not the result of a head shot. Those are the result of hunters taking a high risk shot. A shot outside of their skill level. They may have taken a 20 yard shot or a 300 yard shot . . .either way, it was outside their skill level and thus an unethical shot.

Grizz . . .taking a knife . . .isn't that dangerous, I've seen a few guys kicked in the face trying that. You must have went to school with O.J.

[Grizzly Adam]

Grizz . . .taking a knife . . .isn't that dangerous, I've seen a few guys kicked in the face trying that.

Well, Sumner, my face may not be all that pleasant to gaze upon, but it's not because any deer hoof ever rearranged it.

Using a knife to finish deer has been a personal decision, based on experience ... and of necessity. Let's put it this way: In NC, you can't track a wounded deer at night with a gun or a bow, or you're technically "hunting with the aid of a light" ... but there is no law prohibiting having a knife on your person when shining a light on a deer.

Dangerous? Could be, as is so of many things ... but I'm never careless about it. It's not my first rodeo, and I'm not into doing hazardous stuff just for kicks ... but I have finished more than a few wounded deer with a knife, after dark, rather than leave them to the bears and red wolves. There is virtually no chance of recovering them the next day in many areas around here ... and virtually no chance of getting a pass from a wildlife enforcement officer if caught with a gun or bow and a light after dark ... so when I had to, I've done it ... and I will again, if I need to.

And I'm sure I've got far more experience using a knife to end life than O.J. does ... I doubt he's ever been to a hog killing.

Trust me. I proceed with the utmost caution. Don't need to get any uglier!

Would you believe I once had a guy take me to task for finishing a deer with a knife because he said that wasn't his idea of a "quick, clean, kill" ... he stated that it would have been much more "ethical" to have shot it again with a "razor-sharp broadhead" so it could quickly bleed out. I guess he thought a 7/8" by 1.5" razor sharp blade was more efficient than an eight inch by one-and-a-half inch razor sharp blade!

Takes all kinds, huh?

Once, when hunting with a muzzleloader on an evening hunt, I shot a large doe a little back of the heart lung area, through the liver. I saw her hunch up, and she didn't go far, so I intended to quickly reload and put another round into her ... but I discovered to my chagrin that I'd left my ramrod on the truck seat after loading there!

She eventually disappeared from sight, and then it started to rain and was getting dark ... so I got out of the v-ditch I was sitting in and got on her trail. I tracked her for probably 100 yards or so along a grown up feeder ditch ... and suddenly she sprang out of the ditch about ten yards ahead of me and started to run away.

Well, she was making pretty good time, but she was hurt and unable to get along as fast as a deer usually would ... so I took off after her at full throttle. When I finally pulled alongside her, I drew my sheath knife and stabbed her in the lung with my left hand. She stumbled and went down, got up and ran again, but I was able to tackle her and finish the job.

Some would condemn me for doing that ... but I'll tell you this: That was early in my deer hunting experience. She was perhaps my twelfth or thirteenth deer, and to this day the memory of that hunt stays with me ... because it taught me something about myself and hunting: I am a predator, and hunting isn't a sport.

For me, the truth about hunting is that it isn't always pretty, and can't always be done according to the ideas of the masses. Sometimes it's a bloody, up close and personal, primal experience ... and there's nothing wrong with that.

Two things widely define my personal hunting ethic:

I do all I can to make a quick end for my prey.
I do all I can to recover and consume my prey.

If that means using a knife sometimes, then that's what I'll do!

OK ... everyone can open fire now.

[sumner4991]

I love the story Grizz! I'm not allowed to try that, Mom won't let me run with an open knife.

I agree with you 100%. Hunting is hunting. I wasn't attracted to it because it was a "gentleman's game".

[Grizzly Adam]

Maybe I read too many Tarzan books when I was a kid!

I once had a brand-spanking new teenage bowhunter who was out hunting with me tell me, as he shook like a leaf beside his recovered first bow kill, that it was the "realest" thing he'd ever done! I find that primitive reality one of the most satisfying aspects of the hunt.

[Boo]

Now we know where the nick name Grizzly comes from! LOL!

[Grizzly Adam]

Now we know where the nick name Grizzly comes from! LOL!

Actually, Don ... other kids started calling me that when I was just a boy, because my favorite TV show was "Grizzly Adams" ! We didn't have a TV or a car during those years ... but my grandma did have a tube, so my Mom and little brother and I would walk to her house on Thursday evenings to see it ... about three and a half miles!

I guess some of my cronies got wind of how much I liked that show, and they knew I wanted to be a mountain man when I grew up ... thus the nickname, and it stuck. I've been Grizzly Adam to many for at least 35 years!

Funny thing is, Adams wasn't a hunter ... and now that I'm grown, I realize that the show had a mild 1970's style anti-hunting flavor!

Ironic.

[crazyfarmer]

Grizz, im with you on the knife thing;) I cant count how mnay ive finished with a knife! I want a quick kill and I just dont like shooting a deer from 1-2 feet. When we processed deer for hunters for the hungry, we would get alot of deer that had been finished off at 1 foot. The wade and everything was still in the deer and it wasnt much left of that area. The tricky thing is finishing off a buck with a knife. That can get rather dangerous. Ive been butted and knocked off my feet before. Luckly never hurt. You just have to make sure the deer cant really get to gets feet LOL.

a knife is a way of life on the farm;) espically when we butcher beef and hogs. Ive just been brought up around that so finishing with a knife seems like a quick kill to me, rather than shooting again at such close range. We can still dog hunt here, so its either shoot again with the dogs around the deer, dont shoot and witness something no one should see, or use a knife before things get out of hand with the dogs vs deer.

[crazyfarmer]

A shot outside of their skill level. They may have taken a 20 yard shot or a 300 yard shot . . .either way, it was outside their skill level and thus an unethical shot.

agreed there! I hate when people come up and ill say mine is just sighted for 75-100yards max. Then they say, well I'm gonna sight mine in for 300 yards. Wow Whatever floats your boat... Can I shoot 300 yards? Sure! Do I want to shoot 300 at a deer? Hell no... I just much more enjoyment out of close range and 90% of my shoots are 15-30yards with a ML also LOL

[Adrian J Hare]

This is one thing that aggrevates me to no end. People that call themselves hunters and archers at that and take stupid shots that make everyone of us look bad.

This year alone I have seen two different deer shot in the neck and the head with arrows. What in the hell is wrong with people Can you not pass up a shot for an ethical shot.

Whats the scoop on the pictures, is there a story behind it ? was that your shot ? did you find it ? Not impressing at all....

This is why we all will have to take a Bow hunters corse in the future to beable to hunt with a Bow, all because of the lack of experence ...

Hey, Adrian ...

You posted while I was replying to Sumner.

Eltin, who started the thread, asked a question about some experiments he'd done with a skull, from his inexperience. Nothing wrong with that.

The pics are from a muzzleloader who killed a deer that had been shot in the head by an archer, as it says.

The links are for similar scenarios.

Eltin did the right thing by asking, don't you think?

Yes Grizz, He did the right thing and I now understand the reason for the pictures and I do not direct my anger to anyone from here only towards the people that would try such a thing in the woods. After reading this and remembering the shots I seen taken this fall, I can not understand why someone would have to Kill that bad...

[sumner4991]

Adrain . . .everyone makes mistakes, no reason to believe the hunter whom shot that deer in the head with the arrow wasn't aiming for the heart form 20 yards. Mistakes are how we become experts. As long as we don't keep making the same mistakes over and over . . .then it's time for some anger. I was angry when I emptied my quiver(6 arrows) at a doe from 20 yards with my recurve. Not a single hit . . .outside my skill level at the time, wow, that was 30 years ago.

Anyway, let's not get a possie together until someone is proven unethical.

[Grizzly Adam]

I was angry when I emptied my quiver(6 arrows) at a doe from 20 yards with my recurve. Not a single hit . . .outside my skill level at the time

Ha, ha! Wish I could have been hiding in the bushes to see it, Sumner!

Man, I can remember some humilitating misses myself! I doubt I've seen the last one, either. Ol' brother whitetail has a way of escaping the Reaper sometimes, in spite of experience!

I'm not the only one. I well remember hunting with a guy one morning who took a stand about two hundred yards away from me (out of sight) along a path cut through some brush and grass beside a standing corn field. After we'd been on stand about an hour, I heard a "THOING" ... and then, about ten seconds later, another "THOING" ... and then another "THOING" ... and then another "THOING" ... and finally, after a longer pause, one last "THOING" ... and then a long string of muffled @%#^*$# curses!

As the last cuss word floated away on the crisp morning air, I clearly heard the bounding crashes of a fleeing deer ... and to this day, that remains one of my fondest memories of that guy.

We're all human ... and humans fail!

[sumner4991]

Grizz . . .No, I don't think you would have liked being in the bushes unless you had some armour. The shooting was ugly, probably a lot like your buddy. Being in the bushes would have been dangerous . . .riding on the back of a deer would have been safe. That was my last hunt with a recurve, bought a compound the next day.

The funny part of that event was the deer's reaction. I was in front, below, behind . . .the poor deer kept reacting to the arrow hitting the ground. It would run away and stop, back toward me and stop . . .I finally ran it off, yelling and shaking my recurve at it.

[BigTiny]

The first deer I ever shot was with a head shot. I was using a rifle I knew was a 1/2 MOA or better, and I was practicing shooting to the tune of 1000+ rounds per week. The shot was easy. It was my first deer hunt, so I didn't know much about the whole ethical shot thing. I had been trained to take that shot on human targets from much further away, so I figured I was good to go. Now that I'm older, I know if I had just waited a couple more minutes, the deer would have likely given up a better shot. Also, being older now, my skills and coordination have diminished to the point where that shot is undoable. I don't shoot as much anymore either. The 21 year-old me could do it, but the 40 year-old version should stick to broadside shots.

I don't know why anyone would try a head shot with archery gear, even if you hit your mark, that's not enough KE for a bony target.